The power to make cycling make sense

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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$64000 question. Is the Eurodirective a minimum specification and/or a maximum specification for member states. In otherwords is it possible for a member state, say us the UK, to bring in legislation to create a second class of high speed ebikes? I presume that this is posiible if the EU direcective is simply a minimum specification. Or would our parliament not have that authority?
Yes, and we can force them. Germany has introduced a faster class of e-bike with separate regulations, roughly following the Swiss fast bike class example. Under European law, every citizen of the union is entitled to enjoy any benefit that any other citizen of the union legally enjoys.

It follows from that we can also ride those bikes in principle. The problem is that we can only actually do it if we force the government to introduce the parallel legislation to set in place the legal conditions for them, insurance requirements etc. That's the nightmare, we can insist that they do it, but we don't have any authority to set them a timetable, and could only enforce action by turning to Europe for an enforcement order. At my age I don't have enough time for such shenanigans!

And we're back to why we are such cynics and sceptics. :D. But, having said that, can 50cycles get their MP to set that in motion so we can enjoy what Germans have, since we are entitled to it. A new $64000 question!

P.S.
The same situation applies to the BMW C1 scooter. Because of it's built in protections meaning helmets aren't necessary, riders are excused wearing a crash helmet in all European countries except Britain. Why? Because our cussed governments have point blank refused to make the exception in our law. (Another example of why we're cynical and sceptical). Again it could be forced, and there's been a huge amount of protest from the motorcycle trade and customers about this, but none have been brave enough to take the matter to Europe and spend a major part of their life doing that.
 
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Miles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 4, 2006
504
1
Has anyone managed to track down the German legislation. I'd be interested to see exactly what it says. It would also be useful ammo for us, of course...
 

Miles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 4, 2006
504
1
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Baboonking

Pedelecer
Nov 4, 2006
147
6
Watford
Yes, and we can force them. Germany has introduced a faster class of e-bike with separate regulations, roughly following the Swiss fast bike class example. Under European law, every citizen of the union is entitled to enjoy any benefit that any other citizen of the union legally enjoys.

I
This seems good news. I too would like to hear more info on the new German laws.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
Re: The German law. I've seen the announcements a while ago, but no detail. It probably hasn't found it's way into English yet.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
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I'll have a dig around Miles. I might be able to locate it. Like you, I've found little usful online. Be a little while though, got some cycling to do!
 

Quicken

Pedelecer
Nov 14, 2006
56
3
It might be worthwile emailing Mr. Thomas Rohr from the extraenergy.org article (assuming he is still at the same address). It would also be worth sending emails to Swizzbee (can't see an email address on their website - you might have to register). You could try the UK dealer:

mckeownace@aol.com
swizzbee - Dealers

Finally, it might be worth trying the German authority for transportation, the Kraftfahrt Bundesamt: Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt (KBA) - Flensburg / Dresden (260704a) (they have a contact form)

Cheers,
Q
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I think Quicken is right. I'm sure I saw the information in an A to B issue, but I've been through both the News pages and Letters answers for the last two years and drawn a blank, so it must be elsewhere in the editorial content. I'll post if I do eventually come across it.
 

Miles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 4, 2006
504
1
I've found the reference in AtoB: Issue 41 page 29.

It doesn't really add much to the ExtraEnergy article, though. They've got Type Approval as a Low Powered Moped ..... so what? Still the 25km/h limit applies.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
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Thanks Miles, I missed that through not reading far enough into the item. I don't read it's meaning in quite the way you do though. Yes, it's wangled it's way in as a low powered moped, but doesn't the requirement for insurance indicate recognition of it's speed, or is that requirement for all electric bikes there?

Either way this 22 mph machine is legal there, so we have the same entitlement to it under European law, subject to my comments above.
 

Miles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 4, 2006
504
1
Hi Flecc,

Here's the Extra Energy paragraph:

"Swizzbee AG, headquartered in Baar, Switzerland, has obtained European-wide type approval for their pedelec in January 2004. It is the first legal pedelec in the EU that rides faster than 25 km/h (up to 35 km/h when the rider is pedaling). By means of a button at the handlebar the Swizzbee 50C can, alternatively, be used as a moped to a maximum speed of 15 km/h without pedaling. Speaking in legal terms, the Swizzbee 50C can therefore be regarded as “Low-Performance Moped”––a two-wheeler with a maximum design speed not exceeding 25 km/h, and working pedals (92/61/EWG and 2002/24/EC). Low-Performance Mopeds are subordinate to the European category “Mopeds” (maximum speed 45 km/h)."

Is the Pedelec limit 35km/h in Germany? What was the point in gaining Type Approval as a Low Powered Moped? That's what I'd like to know....:rolleyes:
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
Thanks for that Miles.

I agree it's certainly less than clear. That probably doesn't matter considering the actual situation we live with, where almost nobody knows any of these laws anyway, least of all the law enforcement agencies. I just like the idea of getting them admitted so we can benefit from the reality of this situation.

Said by someone who this afternoon wished three police officers "Good afternoon" as he rode past them on the pavement in Selsdon Park Road. Yes, they smiled a return greeting as they stepped aside to make room for me!

I bet they don't even know they can issue a £20 on the spot fine for that.

(P.S. I don't normally ride on pavements, but at this point it's impossible to avoid in the direction I needed to go. Too long and complicated to explain.)
 

Miles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 4, 2006
504
1
The Australian article was a model of clarity and good sense, I thought. Thanks for posting it Baboonking. I've got the Monash report, somewhere...
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
It's difficult to see how they could apply preferential treatment to electric bikes, and not apply it to ordinary bikes...
That shouldn't necessarily be a problem though, given government objectives on less motor vehicle usage, an overall reduction would be desirable.

A separate classification for utility bikes is even conceivable, Chancellors have made finer distinctions in the past. E-bikes could easily fit in that role while leaving the bulk of unpowered MTBs still taxed as at present due to their sporting and leisure nature.