The plan so far.

[OxygenJames]

So I was in my local Evans earlier today and they had this utterly gorgeous Specialised 'thing' mountain bike looked like a carbon frame white no shock forks 10 speed utterly beautiful work of art I think it was £1600 and weighed about half an ounce.

So I have this Burisch motor arriving (off a Burische Synergy) where I get the motor and the spokes and have to lace it to the right rim and so I was thinking that could be a nice donor bike.

Ditch everything but the motor and the controller and the battery and one wire running up to the handlebars that has a switch on the end and when you turn it on it immediately puts the bike at full throttle - no pedelec function no gradual throttle (too many cables).

I wired one of those to my bike last week it makes things so much easier. though you have to remember to turn it off of course.

So that was the plan.

If I do it which I will I will send pics. I think I can make it work and I think it would be really cool! I'll send some pics of the donor bike anyway so you get the idea.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Sorry to spoil your dream, but it sounds like a bad plan. Not easy to fit a motor to a carbon frame because of the torque. With careful enginering, it might be posible at the rear. If you're going to spend that much money, is a used Bafang motor ideal for the prooject when there's smoother, lighter ones? You also have to be careful with fixing those bottle batteries because the moulded in nuts pull out of the carbon frame, as Kudos found with ther King Carbon.

Having said all that, it's not impossible to do and if you have the engineering skills to pull it off, it should be something special.

Have you seen Keppler's Commuter Booster that might be a better drive system?
http://www.commuterbooster.com/

 

[indalo]

I think it was £1600 and weighed about half an ounce.
So I have this Burisch motor arriving (off a Burische Synergy) where I get the motor and the spokes and have to lace it to the right rim and so I was thinking that could be a nice donor bike.

Why spoil a perfectly good bike? If that sort of thing appeals to you, you can buy something similar from a little firm known as Cytronex who have been fitting neat little kits to half-decent bike frames for quite a while now. I haven't checked out their website for some time but I'm sure you can buy something "off the peg" for not much more than the price of that Trek and it will come with a solid guarantee and a good Ni-Mh battery which can be charged up very quickly.

As someone who owns one, I can tell you that I can get across the ground much quicker on my Cannondale model than on my old Dutch bike and the handling is excellent, very sporty indeed. That said, I much prefer to ride my Gazelle and I prefer the crank-drive with that lovely torque-sensing assistance to the somewhat rudimentary on-off assistance provided by the Cytronex kit. To be fair, the Cannondale at 17Kgs all-up doesn't need much electrical assistance and is a nice ride unpowered which allows considerable range, used judiciously.

Having ridden several different bikes at a variety of locations over the last 3 years, the most essential feature for me in a bike is a good torque-sensing system followed closely by silent or near-silent running. Both these features can be achieved using either hub or crank drive. Light weight and quality components added to the mix ensure a nice machine and if the quality control has been overseen by Dutch or German companies, regardless of the bike's country of origin, a good, reliable and capable ebike should be the result.

Indalo

ps After posting that, curiosity got the better of me and I had a look at the Cytronex website. This link will reveal some of their machines with their not unreasonable prices.

http://www.no-hills.com/electric_bike_shop/prodtype.asp?CAT_ID=19

 

[103Alex1]

So I was in my local Evans earlier today and they had this utterly gorgeous Specialised 'thing' mountain bike looked like a carbon frame white no shock forks 10 speed utterly beautiful work of art I think it was £1600 and weighed about half an ounce.

So I have this Burisch motor arriving (off a Burische Synergy) where I get the motor and the spokes and have to lace it to the right rim and so I was thinking that could be a nice donor bike.

Ditch everything but the motor and the controller and the battery and one wire running up to the handlebars that has a switch on the end and when you turn it on it immediately puts the bike at full throttle - no pedelec function no gradual throttle (too many cables).

I wired one of those to my bike last week it makes things so much easier. though you have to remember to turn it off of course.

So that was the plan.

If I do it which I will I will send pics. I think I can make it work and I think it would be really cool! I'll send some pics of the donor bike anyway so you get the idea.

Is the Specialized bike actually a carbon frame ? Sounds too cheap to be a full-carbon frame MTB from Specialized at £1600 new especially with full Ultegra - does it have carbon forks and a lightweight aluminium frame possibly ?

I looked into trying to convert a carbon-frame bike too, OxygenJames ... realized that you'd really need to drop the weight of the battery and motor for it to make any sense, because you lose the real advantage of those bikes even fitting a rack. The weight drop is relative and when riding unpowered or over assist limits you'd wind up powering something heavier than a cheap hybrid from Halfords.

That commuter-booster made sense, but learning it didn't work in the wet made it a non-starter for me. Have you tried riding the bike without a motor ? Gorgeous lightweight bikes you can pick up with 2 fingers are so fast and easy to ride they only really need converting if you're stumped with big hills or have other health factors standing in the way. If I had a carbon bike under 9kg with pedals I would definitely not fit a motor. Still trying to get hold of one with full 105 or Ultegra for less than £650. It's nigh on impossible !

If you did want to go ahead with it, I spotted this rack yesterday whilst looking for a deal on another one.. it's about £100 but claimed to be strong enough to take a decent battery weight.

Buy Topeak Beam Rack RX Carbon Rear Pannier Rack at Tredz Bikes. £116.99 with free UK delivery

I don't know what it would do for the handling though and would want to check carefully it could take the battery OK. Personally, I wouldn't want to try to attach a battery to a carbon frame - if you drill it you'll wreck its value immediately and this is where the best part of the resale potential lies, plus chances of damage seem to be on the high side.

Be interested in your own thoughts about why you want to motorize

 

[OxygenJames]

Is the Specialized bike actually a carbon frame ? Sounds too cheap to be a full-carbon frame MTB from Specialized at £1600 new especially with full Ultegra - does it have carbon forks and a lightweight aluminium frame possibly ?

I looked into trying to convert a carbon-frame bike too, OxygenJames ... realized that you'd really need to drop the weight of the battery and motor for it to make any sense, because you lose the real advantage of those bikes even fitting a rack. The weight drop is relative and when riding unpowered or over assist limits you'd wind up powering something heavier than a cheap hybrid from Halfords.

That commuter-booster made sense, but learning it didn't work in the wet made it a non-starter for me. Have you tried riding the bike without a motor ? Gorgeous lightweight bikes you can pick up with 2 fingers are so fast and easy to ride they only really need converting if you're stumped with big hills or have other health factors standing in the way. If I had a carbon bike under 9kg with pedals I would definitely not fit a motor. Still trying to get hold of one with full 105 or Ultegra for less than £650. It's nigh on impossible !

If you did want to go ahead with it, I spotted this rack yesterday whilst looking for a deal on another one.. it's about £100 but claimed to be strong enough to take a decent battery weight.

Buy Topeak Beam Rack RX Carbon Rear Pannier Rack at Tredz Bikes. £116.99 with free UK delivery

I don't know what it would do for the handling though and would want to check carefully it could take the battery OK. Personally, I wouldn't want to try to attach a battery to a carbon frame - if you drill it you'll wreck its value immediately and this is where the best part of the resale potential lies, plus chances of damage seem to be on the high side.

Be interested in your own thoughts about why you want to motorize

Thanks for your replies guys. I must admit it was somewhat of a late-night-probably-drunk-too-much-wine kind of thought. I've heard Carbon frames can cause trouble when fitting a bottle battery - so there's that and no I am not even sure it is carbon - it did look darn cool in the store though. That communter help thing looked interesting though it sounded a bit noisey and if it has trouble in the wet then thats not so good. I will mosey on down to Evans today and take a closer look at that bike in the cold light of day.

 

[TobyAnscombe]

I can happily recommend the Cytronex approach as I have had one for the last 6 months. I bought a GT Transeo 1.0 as a commuter bike and for dragging a kiddie trailer around and its been solid - bike with kit is light (well, compared to others) at around 18Kg and it does exactly what I want; a normal looking bike that happens to be able to haul my fat **** up the hill as long as I pedal. Range is a bit limited (20-odd miles) but its meant to be a bike with assist, not a fully fledged leccy bike.

Deffo worth having a conversation with them if you want a bike that looks normal but has a secret weapon....

 

[Scimitar]

That communter

An ugly Tube-rider?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Was it this one?
Specialized Sirrus Limited 2013 Hybrid Bike | Evans Cycles

 

[OxygenJames]

Was it this one?
Specialized Sirrus Limited 2013 Hybrid Bike | Evans Cycles

No in fact not - it was this one: Sirus Comp 2013

Which is not carbon at all - though still weighs in at a nice 10.5kg. Then I looked at my old Trec in the shed - and that comes in at 12Kg but would cost zip to buy of course (seeing as I already own it).

Less wine and more careful thought is required.

 

[103Alex1]

No in fact not - it was this one: Sirus Comp 2013

Which is not carbon at all - though still weighs in at a nice 10.5kg. Then I looked at my old Trec in the shed - and that comes in at 12Kg but would cost zip to buy of course (seeing as I already own it).

It's financial suicide going to bike shops and looking at sparkly new toys - sometimes you've gold under your very nose . You can get a full Ultegra groupset for £700 in the sales if you want a road bike setup.

Why not look at doing something with the Trek ? Chances are you've got a decent frame at the very least to begin with and I'll bet you can do something clever to keep the weight down. The differences will be pretty marginal on a converted bike.

 

[OxygenJames]

It's financial suicide going to bike shops and looking at sparkly new toys - sometimes you've gold under your very nose . You can get a full Ultegra groupset for £700 in the sales if you want a road bike setup.

Why not look at doing something with the Trek ? Chances are you've got a decent frame at the very least to begin with and I'll bet you can do something clever to keep the weight down. The differences will be pretty marginal on a converted bike.

I do have a problem with shiny sparkly things. Especially the two wheeled with pedal variety. And compared to cars and motorbikes they are all really so darn cheap! Even the expensive ones!

The latest problem in my head is that the Sirus Comp has 700 wheels which means I would have to get the motor laced with the right spokes and I dont think I have the right spokes to do that.

Anybody here know anybody who would spoke up a motor to a rim? I'm sure if I google I could find it but anybody here who knows people who do this and are reliable and quality and not too much money - that would be good to know. Do I need to supply spokes or do they do this. I have no experience in this area at all. All I know is that the Burische I have tops out at 23mph which is what I want - so thats how come I want to use the motor and controller from that bike.

And of course the Sirus Comp I looked at is in fact £900 not £1600 - seeing as its not the carbon one.

But what you say about my Trec is also true.

I do have a problem though. Maybe I should see somebody about it.

 

[103Alex1]

That Sirus Comp has got nice brakes but they are hydraulic discs (albeit not integrated brakes/shifter levers) - I assume you'd have a similar issue to overcome that I was asking about not so long ago - finding a neat way to make the motor cut out when brakes applied ? Perhaps regular eBrake levers are compatible but just a thought to check.

It's also got a 9-speed cassette on the bike. Is that gear setup going to be compatible with the hub motor you want to lace in ?

You can get spokes easily enough but you need to work out what length. This depends on the motor profile and the rim. Also make sure the rims are up to it, else you'll need a new rear rim too. They are specced as double-wall ones so might be OK to use the rim off the wheel that comes with the bike - maybe someone on here can advise.

I believe 12G or 13G spokes are OK. If you want really good spokes, DT Swiss ones are pretty solid but there are plenty of others.

I still think £900 is a lot for what you're getting in that bike - Specialized is a bit of a hype brand and I've never been a fan of their products VFM-wise. But if you like the look of the bike and how it rides, that's the main thing I guess.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi The Man to spoke wheels is Alan He makes spokes to any length


Email just1bike@gmail.com

Frank

 

[OxygenJames]

Hi The Man to spoke wheels is Alan He makes spokes to any length


Email just1bike@gmail.com

Frank

Cheers Frank.

 

[OxygenJames]

That Sirus Comp has got nice brakes but they are hydraulic discs (albeit not integrated brakes/shifter levers) - I assume you'd have a similar issue to overcome that I was asking about not so long ago - finding a neat way to make the motor cut out when brakes applied ? Perhaps regular eBrake levers are compatible but just a thought to check.

It's also got a 9-speed cassette on the bike. Is that gear setup going to be compatible with the hub motor you want to lace in ?

You can get spokes easily enough but you need to work out what length. This depends on the motor profile and the rim. Also make sure the rims are up to it, else you'll need a new rear rim too. They are specced as double-wall ones so might be OK to use the rim off the wheel that comes with the bike - maybe someone on here can advise.

I believe 12G or 13G spokes are OK. If you want really good spokes, DT Swiss ones are pretty solid but there are plenty of others.

I still think £900 is a lot for what you're getting in that bike - Specialized is a bit of a hype brand and I've never been a fan of their products VFM-wise. But if you like the look of the bike and how it rides, that's the main thing I guess.

Hi there. You raise a number of things......... I dont want the engine to cut off the power - I have disabled the pedelec function on my bike and just use the throttle - it gives me more control I find - so the brakes are not an issue. I think you could be right about the 'wow' factor on that Brand though - me and shiny things again - but it does look nice!

Though a major issue is that the forks are solid - and I am not sure I want to go back to that.

The cassette I wont use - I will have to go back to a 7 speed - you cant get 9-speed freewheel cassettes for love nor money - so theres no way around that.

Frank seems to have given me details of how to get a 700 wheel spoked up - so thats handled..... (cheers Frank)

Decisions decisions.....

 

[KirstinS]

All I know is that the Burische I have tops out at 23mph which is what I want - so thats how come I want to use the motor and controller from that bike.
it.[/QUOTE]

This is not on throttle alone is it ? Just intrigued to know how to get this speed from a 250w 36v setup.

Is it down the motor wind and a noncompliant controller ? I mean to the uk 15mph

I have a 36v 250w setup and my only option to increase speed is to up the voltage - a new motor/controller setup would be cheaper

 

[OxygenJames]

Hi there. You raise a number of things......... I dont want the engine to cut off the power - I have disabled the pedelec function on my bike and just use the throttle - it gives me more control I find - so the brakes are not an issue. I think you could be right about the 'wow' factor on that Brand though - me and shiny things again - but it does look nice!

Though a major issue is that the forks are solid - and I am not sure I want to go back to that.

The cassette I wont use - I will have to go back to a 7 speed - you cant get 9-speed freewheel cassettes for love nor money - so theres no way around that.

Frank seems to have given me details of how to get a 700 wheel spoked up - so thats handled..... (cheers Frank)

Decisions decisions.....

I take some of that back - you can get a 9-speed freewheel - saw one here on Ebay - though not cheap. 9-speed freewheel cassette

 

[103Alex1]

I take some of that back - you can get a 9-speed freewheel - saw one here on Ebay - though not cheap. 9-speed freewheel cassette

Interesting ... not that expensive compared to motors designed for 9 & 10-speed cassettes ! Is the motor you have geared or ungeared ?

Apart from the frame of course, a lot of the cost of higher-end bikes is in the particular groupset fitted and consequential improvements in unpowered ride. If you're swapping out a lot of that does it not make sense just to get an equally nice-looking bike (usually prior year models) without expensive parts you don't actually need ? Just wondering !

 

[banbury frank]

Hi


the link for the 9 speed is where we get our freewheels from the reason they are expensive is the have a double bearing inside New product from Sturmey Archer / sunrace

Frank

Fantastic STRONG freewheels from David a honest suppler

Frank

 

[OxygenJames]

Interesting ... not that expensive compared to motors designed for 9 & 10-speed cassettes ! Is the motor you have geared or ungeared ?

Apart from the frame of course, a lot of the cost of higher-end bikes is in the particular groupset fitted and consequential improvements in unpowered ride. If you're swapping out a lot of that does it not make sense just to get an equally nice-looking bike (usually prior year models) without expensive parts you don't actually need ? Just wondering !

Yes you're probably right. I am trying to put myself off the whole idea - its very expensive and it has no suspension forks and yes I would probably be half paying for the bits I dont actually want. Still finding a 9 speed freewheel cassette didn't help did it. Its the white frame that does me in. I'm a sucker for white frames.