The more I search the less I know

[Beardedave]

I am 61, have Rheumatoid Arthritis (knees ain't great) and live in Cornwall, a land famous for hills. I used to cycle to work, to the shops, for fun before I moved here and grew creeky.
It seems that I need a crank drive to cope with these hills but need a hub drive to allow me to stop pedaling when I need to. Is this true?
I have a budget of £800 to an absolute max of £1000, though that would smart! I have looked at GBK and BMSb and I could put together a nice bike using something like the Carrera Subway, though I would change the bars so they curve round a bit - better for my elbows, currently £229 in Halfords. Or I could wait for Woosh to get some more Santanas. But, hub or crank, please? Any ideas,

Cheers,

Dave

 

[trex]

if you have troubles with your knees, the Big Bear LS is a good choice for your budget.
BPM motor, 15AH battery, Dutch style frame.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?bigbear-ls

 

[Beardedave]

Thanks for the quick reply, Trex! As you probably know, the BB is sold out at present and it may be a bit big for me - only 5"6. Do you have any preferance for front or rear hubs?

 

[trex]

it's the crossbar Bear that is on short supply.
The LS Bear is not a big bike but still in that Dutch style, much more relaxed riding position.
You can ask for a low profile saddle post - with which at lowest setting, the top of the saddle is only 80cm above ground. Hatti can ride it and she's is not tall (about 5ft2 to 5ft3).
I like rear hub, bottle battery, sport bikes like the Sport TS but not good if you have big hills and dodgy knees.

 

[jackhandy]

Don't know if you have a bike,presently, that you'd be happy to convert:
If so, an Ezee kit copes well with the hills in the Cornish Alps.

 

[Beardedave]

I don't have a bike at the present, but theEzee kits look veryexpensive compared to the GBK and BMS ones - what's the difference?
And Trex, thank you, the BB does look good!

 

[Alan Quay]

It seems that I need a crank drive to cope with these hills but need a hub drive to allow me to stop pedaling when I need to. Is this true?

No, either can be controlled with a throttle. There is a lot of debate about which is better for hills, but some of the modern hub drives (BPM/CST) can cope with most hills as long as you can pedal a bit or aren't too heavy.

 

[jackhandy]

I don't have a bike at the present, but theEzee kits look veryexpensive compared to the GBK and BMS ones - what's the difference?

The major difference, IMHO, is that we get excellent after-sales support from Cyclezee.
If you buy from gbk or bms you effectively buy with no warranty or support.

The price difference is not so great when you factor in delivery, vat & carrier's "admin fees".

I've no first-hand experience of the bpm/cst motor, which I presume is what you're considering, other than a couple restricted to producing 520w; whereas the Ezee mk2 motor is a real powerhouse on the local hills.

If you're interested, you're welcome to a blast up to Hensbarrow on mine.

 

[Geebee]

If Ezee uk as the same as Oz you get a 2 year warranty on everything.
The Ezee has a lot of grunt

 

[Beardedave]

Jackhandy - thats a very nice offer. You're near St Austell aren't you? I'd appreciate that!
Are rear hubs best for hills?

 

[Kudoscycles]

The Kudos Tornado would be perfect for you,the combination of BPM motor plus torque sensor means you have the best hill climbing ability ,the torque sensor only requires you to turn the pedals,with little rider input,to get max power. Jack handy rode the Arriba at the Eden project and many local folk bought the Arriba down in your county.
If you read through this forum you will read so much about the never ending battle between crank v hub,crank drive should in theory be the best for hill climbing but in practise the BPM motored hub bikes are currently the best hill climbers,ask D8veh what he thinks,he is normally neutral
But the Tornado is £1095.00,a little over your budget,I am sure we have a couple of demo bikes that could meet your budget.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

No, either can be controlled with a throttle. There is a lot of debate about which is better for hills, but some of the modern hub drives (BPM/CST) can cope with most hills as long as you can pedal a bit or aren't too heavy.

Mike,it's definitely the opposite to what you have stated. I took a day out to try some of the crank drive bikes that are at the London Electric Bike Company ,these included the KTM Bosch crank and Panasonic hub drive bikes and compared these with the Kudos Typhoon(the 29er version of the Tornado),I am 17 stone and not especially fit. The KTM Panasonic hub bike was the quickest and easiest up the hill,closely followed by the Kudos Typhoon,I rode the steep hill in Richmond Park with very little rider input on either the Typhoon or the Panasonic hub. The KTM 400 Sport (Bosch crank) was a very satisfying ride,not as powerful as the Panasonic hub bike but actually it was my favourite bike,however you did have to be in the right gear to get the most from it,it was not a bike for a lazy rider.
This raises a good point,there are so many facets to what makes a good bike,not just hill climbing ability which let's be honest this forum seems most concerned with. Jimod said that whilst his Typhoon is the strongest hill climber,his favourite bike is still his Kudos Tourer,but his wife's Woosh Santana does exactly what she needs.
At the moment hub drive is winning the hill climbing battle,I think that the 2 finalists up the Bristol Park Street race were hub drive,of the BPM genre.
But I suspect that at Eurobike we will see another generation of Bosch crank drive or maybe they will come out with a BPM type motor.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

what makes the hub bikes strong hill climbers is the controller. The more current going through the controller, the more power the motor gives out, as simple as that.
It simply is not an easy comparision when you consider that the Bosch and TCM crank motors are given 14A-15A while the Panasonic and BPM are given 20A-22A. Crank drives are efficient hill climbers. A TCM running at 15A can hold itself up against a BPM running at 20A. Guess which battey will run out of juice first.
For a fairer fight, pitch the BBS01 18A against a BPM.
The table is easily reversed if you pitch the Pana/BPM against a BBS02 25A 48V monster.

 

[Beardedave]

Kudosdave - now you're tempting me! I would be very interested in an ex-demo bike. My email is penstrassoe@hotmail.com if you want to contact me direct. In a way this discussion highlights why I called it what I did, so many different views and opinions, seems there are no real "bests" just a general agreement on the turkeys!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Trex,how do you know the KTM Panasonic is running 22 amps?
KudosDave

 

[Alan Quay]

Mike,it's definitely the opposite to what you have stated. I took a day out to try some of the crank drive bikes that are at the London Electric Bike Company ,these included the KTM Bosch crank and Panasonic hub drive bikes and compared these with the Kudos Typhoon(the 29er version of the Tornado),I am 17 stone and not especially fit. The KTM Panasonic hub bike was the quickest and easiest up the hill,closely followed by the Kudos Typhoon,I rode the steep hill in Richmond Park with very little rider input on either the Typhoon or the Panasonic hub. The KTM 400 Sport (Bosch crank) was a very satisfying ride,not as powerful as the Panasonic hub bike but actually it was my favourite bike,however you did have to be in the right gear to get the most from it,it was not a bike for a lazy rider.
This raises a good point,there are so many facets to what makes a good bike,not just hill climbing ability which let's be honest this forum seems most concerned with. Jimod said that whilst his Typhoon is the strongest hill climber,his favourite bike is still his Kudos Tourer,but his wife's Woosh Santana does exactly what she needs.
At the moment hub drive is winning the hill climbing battle,I think that the 2 finalists up the Bristol Park Street race were hub drive,of the BPM genre.
But I suspect that at Eurobike we will see another generation of Bosch crank drive or maybe they will come out with a BPM type motor.
KudosDave

That's not the opposite of what I said. I said that modern hub drives go well up hills.
If you are 30 stone, don't pedal and want to climb 25% then it probably won't work.

My Bafang CST will fire my 18 stone up 10% hills without breaking sweat (it or me).

 

[Kudoscycles]

Dave,oh no not another Dave on this forum! If you make contact with Kudos on Monday I will seek out a best ex demo bike for your budget.
We ship out our bikes for free,but if you don't like it I will collect back for £25.00.
Dave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Mike,unless I am misreading your posting I thought you meant that the BPM motored bikes are ok,as long as you are not too heavy. My findings are the opposite-that crank drive is good provided you are not too heavy,but the hub drive will accept 'sir been weightlifting types'
Dave

 

[trex]

Trex,how do you know the KTM Panasonic is running 22 amps?
KudosDave

did I say KTM P running at 22A? no, it's running at 46.8V - maximum Amps: 2C = 2 x 8.8A
from here (page 34): www.freebike.pt/v1.5/images/Cat/Cat2014_KTM.pdf

1boris reported on the BPM powered BH Neos this morning. You can always confirm the max Amps of your bikes, I reckon 20A?

 

[Alan Quay]

Mike,unless I am misreading your posting I thought you meant that the BPM motored bikes are ok,as long as you are not too heavy. My findings are the opposite-that crank drive is good provided you are not too heavy,but the hub drive will accept 'sir been weightlifting types'
Dave

I guess I just meant that there are limits to everything.