The Law

BazP

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 8, 2017
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For a whole host of reasons that is not a rational argument. Indeed it can be shown to be irrational.
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I always wear a helmet nowadays but don’t really care if people object to wearing one. I certainly wouldn’t want it to be made compulsory in law.
I have actually proved, twice, that a helmet can prevent injury, once by doing the embarrassing manoeuvre of over balancing with foot clipped in whilst stood. The resulting hit on the kerb could have caused a lot of injury.
I do a lot of off road cycling including bike park stuff and would feel very insecure without a helmet.
I’ve tried to think of a sensible reason not to wear one but other than it may give someone a headache or overheat their head or can’t afford one I’m at a loss. Perhaps it’s a macho thing with some people.
 

Nealh

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Being clipped in adds an extra element of danger, had you had normal flats then the situation would not have arisen. It is all about risk and in your case wearing a helmet was sensible.
Adventure riding I wear one though often in very hot conditions I remove it simply too cool my head to prevent heat stroke as I do get too overly warm, in place I wear a bandana affair with a tail to keep direct heat off my bonce. Removing my helmet when adventure riding I slow down and will try taking other less risks which I may come across in my decision making.
 
D

Deleted member 25121

Guest
On one occasion I fell off when cycling along a country lane and my cycle helmet scraped along a barbed wire fence, I hate to think what would have happened if I hadn't been wearing one. On another occasion my helmet hit a fence post when I fell off.
Since then I:
1. Cycle more carefully! :)
2. Always wear a cycle helmet. If I forget I very quickly feel odd when I get on my bike, it's a bit like forgetting to use a car safety belt, it just doesn't feel right.
 
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sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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A helmet in my view will help in protecting against objects like branches etc hiting you
unless the branch get caught in a ventilation hole in the helmet and pushes you backwards. (luckily I was going very slowly when that happened)
 

BazP

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 8, 2017
358
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Being clipped in adds an extra element of danger, had you had normal flats then the situation would not have arisen. It is all about risk and in your case wearing a helmet was sensible.
Adventure riding I wear one though often in very hot conditions I remove it simply too cool my head to prevent heat stroke as I do get too overly warm, in place I wear a bandana affair with a tail to keep direct heat off my bonce. Removing my helmet when adventure riding I slow down and will try taking other less risks which I may come across in my decision making.
Yes I think we all do what we can to stay save but we can only think of most of the risks and can never completely rule out an accident. Some accidents could not have been foreseen, only tried to be dealt with at the time.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,213
30,611
would feel very insecure without a helmet.
I’ve tried to think of a sensible reason not to wear one but other than it may give someone a headache or overheat their head or can’t afford one I’m at a loss. Perhaps it’s a macho thing with some people.
Certainly not in any way a macho thing, quite the opposite. It's a matter of getting one's priorities right.

There are two forms of safety. The second and very inferior one is Secondary Safety, alleviating the effects of accidents, and wearing a helmet is a part of that.

The first and far superior one is Primary Safety, avoiding having the accident in the first instance.

The obsession with secondary safety is thoroughly bad since it detracts from concentrating on the primary, an important part of which is the constant awareness of just how terribly vulnerable we all are. Having that vulnerability in mind at all times when riding has a very marked effect on our riding conduct, fear being a strong driver.

In stark contrast research has shown very clearly that using a secondary safety item like a helmet gives the rider a sense of false security far in excess of what the helmet can really achieve. Far worse is that other research has clearly shown that drivers take less care with cyclists wearing helmets than they do with those appearing more vulnerable, thus increasing the danger to helmet wearers.

To drive this point home, one GLC survey of helmet wearing in London, the main cycling centre in the UK, has given the incidence of helmet wearing as 27%. Yet every one of the 14 cyclists killed that year had been wearing a helmet. Think about that, not one of the near three quarters non-wearers had been killed. I suggest to you that in most cases it was awareness of how vulnerable they were, combined with no false sense of security from wearing a helmet that kept them safe.

So how do we best implement Primary Safety? For that we have to look back at our cycling history. We in Britain invented the safety bicycle some 140 years ago. Up until then riding the "penny farthings" at their typical 10 mph or less brought a high risk of tipping forward for an "over the bars" accident, especialy when braking the front wheel, but the safety bicycle ridden at typically the same sort of speed almost entirely removed that risk, hence the name safety bicycle.

For the next 100 years we all tended to ride at quite sedate speeds at around 10 mph, mostly utility riding with some countryside leisure as well. Only a tiny number of cyclists were in any way sporting, riding at higher speeds This was very evident to me in the trade 70 years ago, cycling accidents being infrequent, and the rare death due to being run over and crushed by a motor vehicle.

For reasons I've covered elsewhere cycling by adults all but disappeared in Britain in the 1960s and 1970s, but early in the 1980s the mountain bike arrived and sparked a leisure riding revival which was sporting in nature. That in turn lead to a revival of road cycling and many will remember how we started to get interested in such as the Tour de France from the 1990s on.

The outcome of these changes in Britain has meant that as utility cycling such as commuting has returned, it's had a very sporting slant with the riding quite commonly being at 20 mph or more, often head down on drop bars, helmeted and determinedly grim faced.

So as surely as 2 follows 1, the accident and death rates have ridden sharply.

At high speeds the chance of stopping for anything suddenly getting into our path is very small and the risk of going over the bars and getting a serious head injury high. But at moderate speeds up to about 12 mph we are more likely to be able to stop or slow and the risk of going over the bars is minimal.

So if you want to maximise your cycling safety, return to the fundamental point of the safety bicycle, the ability to travel three or four times as far as walking in a given time with no more effort. At speeds always below 15 mph you'll have much more time to pay attention to motor vehicles and avoid some of driver's dangerous behaviour. You won't need to compete with them at being first into the blind bend. You'll be able to stop in time for the idiot who turns left across your nose into a side road. In less of a hurry you won't be so inclined to ride up the nearside of a truck into the driver's blind spot and get crushed as they turn left. Like the more sensible slower riding Dutch cyclists you won't fret at the 15.5 mph assist cutoff since you won't encounter it.

And you'll probably live a long and more pain free life.
.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,213
30,611
Yes I think we all do what we can to stay save but we can only think of most of the risks and can never completely rule out an accident. Some accidents could not have been foreseen, only tried to be dealt with at the time.
But we can also deal with the unknown ones in advance to a considerable extent, as my long post just above shows if you read it right through.

For change to take place, we must change first.
.
 
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D

Deleted member 25121

Guest
Certainly not in any way a macho thing, quite the opposite. It's a matter of getting one's priorities right.

There are two forms of safety. The second and very inferior one is Secondary Safety, alleviating the effects of accidents, and wearing a helmet is a part of that.

The first and far superior one is Primary Safety, avoiding having the accident in the first instance.

The obsession with secondary safety is thoroughly bad since it detracts from concentrating on the primary, an important part of which is the constant awareness of just how terribly vulnerable we all are. Having that vulnerability in mind at all times when riding has a very marked effect on our riding conduct, fear being a strong driver.

In stark contrast research has shown very clearly that using a secondary safety item like a helmet gives the rider a sense of false security far in excess of what the helmet can really achieve. Far worse is that other research has clearly shown that drivers take less care with cyclists wearing helmets than they do with those appearing more vulnerable, thus increasing the danger to helmet wearers.

To drive this point home, one GLC survey of helmet wearing in London, the main cycling centre in the UK, has given the incidence of helmet wearing as 27%. Yet every one of the 14 cyclists killed that year had been wearing a helmet. Think about that, not one of the near three quarters non-wearers had been killed. I suggest to you that in most cases it was awareness of how vulnerable they were, combined with no false sense of security from wearing a helmet that kept them safe.

So how do we best implement Primary Safety? For that we have to look back at our cycling history. We in Britain invented the safety bicycle some 140 years ago. Up until then riding the "penny farthings" at their typical 10 mph or less brought a high risk of tipping forward for an "over the bars" accident, especialy when braking the front wheel, but the safety bicycle ridden at typically the same sort of speed almost entirely removed that risk, hence the name safety bicycle.

For the next 100 years we all tended to ride at quite sedate speeds at around 10 mph, mostly utility riding with some countryside leisure as well. Only a tiny number of cyclists were in any way sporting, riding at higher speeds This was very evident to me in the trade 70 years ago, cycling accidents being infrequent, and the rare death due to being run over and crushed by a motor vehicle.

For reasons I've covered elsewhere cycling by adults all but disappeared in Britain in the 1960s and 1970s, but early in the 1980s the mountain bike arrived and sparked a leisure riding revival which was sporting in nature. That in turn lead to a revival of road cycling and many will remember how we started to get interested in such as the Tour de France from the 1990s on.

The outcome of these changes in Britain has meant that as utility cycling such as commuting has returned, it's had a very sporting slant with the riding quite commonly being at 20 mph or more, often head down on drop bars, helmeted and determinedly grim faced.

So as surely as 2 follows 1, the accident and death rates have ridden sharply.

At high speeds the chance of stopping for anything suddenly getting into our path is very small and the risk of going over the bars and getting a serious head injury high. But at moderate speeds up to about 12 mph we are more likely to be able to stop or slow and the risk of going over the bars is minimal.

So if you want to maximise your cycling safety, return to the fundamental point of the safety bicycle, the ability to travel three or four times as far as walking in a given time with no more effort. At speeds always below 15 mph you'll have much more time to pay attention to motor vehicles and avoid some of driver's dangerous behaviour. You won't need to compete with them at being first into the blind bend. You'll be able to stop in time for the idiot who turns left across your nose into a side road. In less of a hurry you won't be so inclined to ride up the nearside of a truck into the driver's blind spot and get crushed as they turn left. Like the more sensible slower riding Dutch cyclists you won't fret at the 15.5 mph assist cutoff since you won't encounter it.

And you'll probably live a long and more pain free life.
.
Interesting, do you hold the save views on car seat belts worn by drivers?
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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Interesting, do you hold the save views on car seat belts worn by drivers?
Yes. Seat belts are a very sensible secondary safety measure, but not nearly as important as the primary factor: safe driving.
 
D

Deleted member 25121

Guest
Yes. Seat belts are a very sensible secondary safety measure, but not nearly as important as the primary factor: safe driving.
My question was addressed to flecc
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Interesting, do you hold the save views on car seat belts worn by drivers?
As sjpt replied.

Interestingly though there is a proven same point on the danger of the secondary safety effect of the seat belt.

The government's own Roads Research Laboratory studied driver behaviour before and after the implementation of the compulsory seat belt law.

The most dramatic change was that point measurements showed that after implementation when wearing a seat belt, driver speeds increased by a clear 10%.

Thus the secondary safety measure had put them and others in greater danger due to them feeling safe enough to drive appreciably faster.

Exactly the point I made above about the harm that obsession with secondary safety does.
.
 

sjpt

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gw8izr

Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
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Helmets don't make you any safer....
When I used to time trial I rarely used a helmet and I’m still here despite some big falls .. but I do use on e now, for a number of reasons.

These days regardless of my own views I try to be seen to be using common sense and what most would consider to be the right protective equipment.

I had to have a bit of swarf dug out of my eye by an A&E nurse, just before she stuck the needle in she said “next time you wear goggles“ ... I did noice a distinct lack of sympathy toward my discomfort :)
 
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D

Deleted member 25121

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Thus the secondary safety measure had put them and others in greater danger due to them feeling safe enough to drive appreciably faster.

Exactly the point I made above about the harm that obsession with secondary safety does.
Flecc - that's a very good point. There are pros and cons to car seat belts but overall they're considered to be a good thing because overall they save lives.

The same could be said for cycle helmets.

(As an aside, apropos nothing, I remember when seat belts were made compulsory in the late 1960's and hearing a local councillor on a safety committee saying that he was against them because drivers stood a better chance of survival if they were thrown out of the car asap through the front window. )
 

corvay

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 22, 2020
6
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Ah didn’t know Schumacher had a camera in his helmet, that makes more sense.

I get the primary/secondary theory, but on a road where there is concrete/tarmac/other idiots and given the law of averages ie. Sht happens, then helmets work. Primary safety such as training, riding slowly reduces risk but can’t eradicate extreme events.

A mate a long time mountain rider ripped his cheek off on a track he had done hundreds of time before, just caught a stick with his pedal and flew into a tree. Low speed collision could have been nothing but a his lip caught a branch and momentum kept the rest of his face going forward. Small scar now hidden by a beard but always Wears a full face now.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Interesting, do you hold the same views on car seat belts worn by drivers?
I'll add to my above answer by saying that effectively I do have the same views in practice. For the 30 plus years before that law was implemented I never wore a seat belt, despite most of my cars being fitted with them during that time. I also strongly objected to the compulsion.

I've never received any protection from a seat belt just as I've never needed a helmet on a bicycle for over 70 years or a helmet on a motorbike during the 23 years before they were made compulsory.

Of course these are all a benefit to those who insist on having accidents, but I'm demonstrably not one of them.
.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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There's one big difference. Almost nobody decided to give up driving when driving meant wearing a seat belt. Quite a few people might give up cycling if they were required to wear a helmet if they continued.

I've been mostly wearing one since before it was at all common here after working in California for a bit 40 years ago, where it was common. However, I'd be very sad if it became compulsory to wear one; there are quite a few situations where there is minimal risk and it is much nicer to go without.

Sadly, many cycle helmet wearers wear them in such a way that they would give very little protection at all; too lose, too far back. Very common to see families out riding with the parents not having helmets, and the children wearing them completely wrong.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Flecc - that's a very good point. There are pros and cons to car seat belts but overall they're considered to be a good thing because overall they save lives.
And have also killed many, again I refer to the RRL. Their diligent research has shown that the speed at the body at which fatal internal injuries are caused by the seat belt averages 26 mph. That's why airbags were implemented as well, they are far better protectors and very rarely kill. With modern full set airbags fitted, seat belts are unnecessary, but our politicians are too self obsessed to admit they got it wrong and killed in the process. And not th only time, but that's another horror story.

(As an aside, apropos nothing, I remember when seat belts were made compulsory in the late 1960's and hearing a local councillor on a safety committee saying that he was against them because drivers stood a better chance of survival if they were thrown out of the car asap through the front window. )
I actually knew someone this happened to. My neighbour's son at the time in a pile up on the M1 was knocked out and thrown from the car unconcious. He came to in the road to see his Ford Escort engulfed in flames and was always thankful he hadn't been wearing the seat belt it was equipped with.

A one off, but you can imagine his opinion of the compulsion when it arrived!
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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There's one big difference. Almost nobody decided to give up driving when driving meant wearing a seat belt. Quite a few people might give up cycling if they were required to wear a helmet if they continued.
Very true and proven. Long ago Australia introduced compulsory cycle helmets and have the lowest rate of cycling of any country in the world. Little wonder , look at what the poor kids are expected to wear in that hot country:

Anzac kids helmets.jpg

Sadly, many cycle helmet wearers wear them in such a way that they would give very little protection at all; too lose, too far back. Very common to see families out riding with the parents not having helmets, and the children wearing them completely wrong.
Like the little girl in the foreground:

K helmet 1.jpg