The Law

[Nealh]

And the relevance that clip has to this forum for UK pedelecs ?
I see none as it is in America where they are highly strung with their insular views and don't have the more liberal outward thinking views of the UK/EU use of them.

Certainly not an ebike but more scooter based but little relevance to the UK afaics.

 

[LeighPing]

Certainly not an ebike but more scooter based but little relevance to the UK afaics.

But not too dissimilar to the one in the original post on this query.

Now weve had a few years to digest the EPAC law can someone please confirm or deny that the following vehicle is legal, im getting shoddy responses from the manufacturer and before i splash the cash I want to know im not getting nicked. The issue I see is you can throttle to 15.5mph without peddling yet the company is saying they are legal but they havnt been type approved.

One moment, please...

 

[Ianb11]

Sadly this is very common Gary. The problem is that it is mostly not illegal to sell anything illegal to use, so it's not easy to prosecute them. Thus we have over legal power air rifles that need a gun licence and illegal pedelecs purported to be legal.

It is possible to report them to the local trading standards department of one's council, but few do and they mostly don't take any action. There have been some notable exceptions though with the occasional department taking a trader to law.
.

Eco-friendly scooter shop owner shocked as vehicles seized in police raid

Sean Haston has been told to stop renting the 15mph electric scooters to tourists from his shop on the Isle of Cumbrae after they were tested with a speed gun.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Action taken here but some of the report does not make much sense. These are twist and go, no pedalling required. (I've been there) yet this seems to imply that TS were only concerned about them possibly beeing derestricted.

 

[wheeliepete]

Certainly not an ebike but more scooter based but little relevance to the UK afaics.

Unfortunately, as the OP has observed, these moped style 250 watt bikes are readily available in the UK. They have pedals and are restricted to 15.5 mph, so only need the approval test for the throttle to be legally used. I could see a similar situation as in the video arising in the UK as people would mistake what they are by their appearance.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Lol - just buy and apply a jedi mind trick sticker....

One moment, please...

Nice one, hilarious.

 

[flecc]

Action taken here but some of the report does not make much sense. These are twist and go, no pedalling required. (I've been there) yet this seems to imply that TS were only concerned about them possibly beeing derestricted.

The trouble is that there is so little knowledge of the complexities of pedelec law, even among the authorities.

In this case they were justly concerned that a derestriction connection had been broken on one of them allowing it an excessive 22 mph assist speed. But they were wrong to complain of the 16 mph one, since the usual 10% speed limit tolerance applies and this has been confirmed by the DfT. Up to 17 mph assist is permissible.

The complaint was possibly sour grapes by a rival trader, there was a similar one in Guernsey years ago when one trader shopped another on a technicality in the law at the time. Must be something about islands!
.

 

[wheeliepete]

The trouble is that there is so little knowledge of the complexities of pedelec law

I'm wondering if these moped style bikes have PAS as the pedals look impossible to use? If not, would this affect the test for full power throttle use?

 

[Michael Price]

On the basis that an ebike that was first sold after 1-1-2016 cannot have a throttle and, therefore, must only have pedal assist - then I can't see how these can be classed as ebikes.
They certainly don't come under the wolley classification of an ebike being a "normal bicycle with a motor to help out" - these things look as if they are designed to be mopeds with a few bit on to make it look like they comply with the ebike laws.
In my opinion they just produce an atmosphere where people have a reason to distrust proper ebikes and as such I don't like them

 

[flecc]

I'm wondering if these moped style bikes have PAS as the pedals look impossible to use? Would this affect the test for full power throttle use?

They are usable though mainly at low speed since they are very low geared, so they do pass the pedelec pedal ability test ok.
.

 

[wheeliepete]

Thanks Flecc, so powered PAS is not needed to pass?

 

[Ianb11]

https://www.scootaboot.co.uk/prices

If they are classed as e-bkes I wonder why the minimum age of 16? They've got 14 correctly for the bikes.

 

[flecc]

On the basis that an ebike that was first sold after 1-1-2016 cannot have a throttle and, therefore, must only have pedal assist - then I can't see how these can be classed as ebikes.

As I've posted, the DfT have since made a ruling for Great Britain only that if an e-bike is taken through a form of type approval they can still be regarded as pedelecs, even with a fully acting throttle. In practice that means taking each one individually though SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) at an approved testing station for a £50 fee. I'm only aware of one going through that process so far.

I agree with your last sentence.
.

 

[flecc]

https://www.scootaboot.co.uk/prices

If they are classed as e-bkes I wonder why the minimum age of 16? They've got 14 correctly for the bikes.

It may be their misunderstanding, but it's more likely just their own rule. Note they also also say helmet compulsory for pasengers under 14 years, but there is no such law.
.

 

[Ianb11]

Looks like they are back in business again. I'll bet there is no individual approval for these.

 

[flecc]

Looks like they are back in business again. I'll bet there is no invidual approval for these.

There may well be. Some e-bikes, including scooter style ones, from both Germany and China, do have EU certification for registration as motor vehicle. That is also Type Approval.
.

 

[Ianb11]

There may well be. Some e-bikes, including scooter style ones, from both Germany and China, do have EU certification for registration as motor vehicle. That is also Type Approval.
.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[LeighPing]

Action taken here but some of the report does not make much sense. These are twist and go, no pedalling required. (I've been there) yet this seems to imply that TS were only concerned about them possibly being derestricted.

Eco-friendly scooter shop owner shocked as vehicles seized in police raid

Sean Haston has been told to stop renting the 15mph electric scooters to tourists from his shop on the Isle of Cumbrae after they were tested with a speed gun.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

As long as the motor operates with the 15.5 mph cutoff it's all good then. My Grandson will be 14 soon enough. I might get him one for his 1.5 mile bike path commute to school. How cool is that.

 

[Ianb11]

As long as the motor operates with the 15.5 mph cutoff it's all good then. My Grandson will be 14 soon enough. I might get him one for his 1.5 mile bike path commute to school. How cool is that.

Needs to have approval as well. Looks like from the OP you may not be able to trust what the merchant claims about legality.

 

[LeighPing]

Needs to have approval as well. Looks like from the OP you may not be able to trust what the merchant claims about legality.

Lots of new ebikes come with throttles fitted. You just have to plug them in yourself. So that no laws are broken by the seller. I've not heard of any of those being pulled for using a thumb throttle yet?

I suppose that If you wanted one of those escooters then the 50 quid approval fee might be worth the hassle. Particularly worthwhile due to the likelihood of getting pulled for being abnormal. Although the regular looking ebikes, where the throttle is provided by the seller, and you plug it in yourself after the sale, never bother going through that approval process. Well not that I've heard of anyhow.

 

[wheeliepete]

Needs to have approval as well. Looks like from the OP you may not be able to trust what the merchant claims about legality.

It would appear not, the guy in the video is renting out the same bikes as in the 1st post. If his bikes have been taken away for inspection and returned to him to continue his hire business, would it be fair to assume they are all "approved"?