The Last Wisper Sneak Preview of the year. 12kg Road Bike

[Woosh]

this flex is normal for a carbon fibre road bike (this bike is a Cannondale SuperSix EVO):

 

[Wisper Bikes]

And that’s on a stiff carbon frame, you can now see where a lot of power goes, esp on an alloy frame. One of the reasons you won’t find an alloy frame in the TDF at the moment.

 

[GLJoe]

And that’s on a stiff carbon frame, you can now see where a lot of power goes, esp on an alloy frame. One of the reasons you won’t find an alloy frame in the TDF at the moment.

A stiffer frame gives a more instantaneous transfer of power. It 'feels' more responsive.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the power is wasted. There is a train of thought that says a more flexible frame simply acts as a spring. While it might bend, it gives back the majority of the power when it returns to its original resting point.
I'm sure at some point people will do some scientific testing and work all of this out (if they haven't already). It might end up being a case similar to thinner tyres once being believed to offer lower rolling resistance, however now we know that this is only the case for very specific situations, and in real life, wider tyres can actually be better!

 

[flecc]

That doesn't necessarily mean that the power is wasted. There is a train of thought that says a more flexible frame simply acts as a spring. While it might bend, it gives back the majority of the power when it returns to its original resting point.

But the timing is critical. The power return would have to be at the right point in respect of crank arm positions to become driving force. If out of synch with cadence it could be wasted, or even disruptive of rider rhythm and be a power deduction.

It could be that each frame might have an optimum cadence for maximum power return, the study of this could be nightmarishly difficult.
.

 

[GLJoe]

But the timing is critical. The power return would have to be at the right point in respect of crank arm positions to become driving force. If out of synch with cadence it could be wasted, or even disruptive of rider rhythm and be a power deduction.

.

Indeed.
but just think of the irony. We could end up with a situation where a 'cyclist' could actually benefit from a flexible frame that's tuned to a sustainable well trained cadence, whereas an unskilled '2 wheeled utility vehicle operator' could actually benefit more from a super rigid, expensive carbon frame.
Love it.

 

[Woosh]

We could end up with a situation where a 'cyclist' could actually benefit from a flexible frame that's tuned to a sustainable well trained cadence,

I believe they do, judging by the various videos about bicycle frame flex.
The current thinking is stiff front triangle, flexible rear triangle, a bit like a swimming fish.

It could be that each frame might have an optimum cadence for maximum power return, the study of this could be nightmarishly difficult.

The physics of damping can easily be modelled for each cyclist to find its 'natural frequency' to suit his/her cadence but how would a small firm sell personalised CF frames? It may be easier to add a tunable micro-suspension to the rear triangle.

 

[flecc]

Indeed.
but just think of the irony. We could end up with a situation where a 'cyclist' could actually benefit from a flexible frame that's tuned to a sustainable well trained cadence, whereas an unskilled '2 wheeled utility vehicle operator' could actually benefit more from a super rigid, expensive carbon frame.
Love it.

And as so often happens, nature got there first. I'm thinking of the kangaroo and its rear leg tendons that stretch with landing force and then propel the animal back into the next leap. That's what enables their amazing endurance at speed with minimal muscle effort.

If we managed to match that conversion efficiency, we could have a Tour de France stage winner saying, "It was nothing really, it was all down to the bike".
.

 

[Nev]

David,
I have just read that some manufacturers produce blanking plates for use when the battery and motor are removed from the bike when using the Fazua system. Will you be doing the same thing?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Nev, we have done. And they will come with the bikes.

All the best, David

 

[Nev]

David,
I had a look at a Cube road bike today, they have the same motor as you have in your Wolverine. They had to take the battery out and switch something on there before they could get the little display on the handlebars to work.

They told me that if the bike is not used for a while (they did not specify how long) then this is what they have found they have to do. If however its just left for a short time then the handle bar display can be switched on from the switch on the display.

I thought this seamed strange, because with my e-mtb I can switch it on from the handlebars no matter how long it has not been used for. They too thought it was strange and did not know if it was a fault or if all the road bikes would be like this. This once was the first e road bike they had got from Cube.

So is your Wolverine the same? If left for a while do you have to take the battery out and operate a switch on it, before the bike is ready to use the motor, or can you switch the display on from the handle bars no matter how long the bike has not been in use.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Nev, we’ve had exactly the same issue. Apparently it’s how the system works.

We have made the decision not to continue with the project this year and may pick it up again for 2020.

All the best, David

 

[Izzyekerslike]

The new bike looks good, although it is not without its competition.

Cube offer Fazua bikes for about the same price - the £4K one in the link is lower spec.

As with Wisper's eMTBs, Wisper seem to think the customer will pay as much for a Wisper bike as for one of the established premium brands.

Strikes me as a brave strategy.

https://www.evanscycles.com/cube-agree-hybrid-c-62-sl-disc-2018-electric-road-bike-EV318118

Hi Rob, thanks for your comments. We are endeavouring to go that way, but as you say, it's not easy. We have sponsored a Wisper Pro eMTB team that will start riding in mid summer. We have a couple of staff entered in the Enduro meeting at the beginning of May on Wisper Wildcats. We have ordered small numbers to start off with, so we are not over exposed financially.

We are using the same components as the high end brands then building them with a lot of care in small numbers, these are not mass produced bikes. We are giving it a go, no one could blame us for not trying!

"Fortune favours the brave" Great bike I hope it does really well.

 

[Jonah]

Hi Nev, we’ve had exactly the same issue. Apparently it’s how the system works.

We have made the decision not to continue with the project this year and may pick it up again for 2020.

All the best, David

The batteries on Kalkhoff bikes used to behave the same way. They went into sleep mode after a week or so and you had to press a button on the battery before the display could be turned on.

 

[Nev]

Hi Nev, we’ve had exactly the same issue. Apparently it’s how the system works.

We have made the decision not to continue with the project this year and may pick it up again for 2020.

All the best, David

Thanks for the reply David, shame you wont be bringing out the model in 2019. I am keen on getting an e-road bike but I wish there were a few more about, I don't like being an early adopter on anything.

I am going to road test the Cube in the next few days but I really don't like the issue of having to reset everything by using the switch on the battery. Seems like a design flaw to me.

I like the looks of the Orbea, and most reports I have read of people who have had one have been very positive, but the delivery times are a joke. I wonder if e-road bikes need another couple of years before they become more acceptable.

 

[Nev]

I am going to road test the Cube in the next few days but I really don't like the issue of having to reset everything by using the switch on the battery. Seems like a design flaw to me.

I road tested the Cube yesterday with the Fazua motor and Ultegra group set. The bike looked terrific, with the battery built into the frame it has the sort of stealthy appearance I like.

At 13.5 kg it was 10.5 kg lighter than my mountain bike and felt really light and responsive to ride. On the flat it was fairly easy to ride above the 15.5 cut off.

I live in a very hilly area and wanted to try it out on a steep hill. I had previously ridden up a hill near the LBS (lot steeper than 10%) on a CX equipped mountain bike loaned from my LBS, and had got up it no problem.

Now the CX motor is 25% more powerful than the Fazua (75 Nm compared to 60 Nm) but I thought with the bike being 10.5 kg lighter this would help to mitigate this a bit.

Unfortunately I really struggled on this hill, if it had been a bit longer I would have had to stop. It felt like the Fazua motor was putting out less than half the power of the CX motor.

At £4500 for this bike I was very disappointed, although I did not expect it to be as powerful as my CX equipped mountain bike, I did not expect the difference in power to be so great.

The bike would be fine if you live in an area without too many steep hills or you have decent fitness, but I have lots of hills where I live.

I went to another bike shop yesterday and they had a Giant Road E+2 but had no demonstrator. They told me the motor was 80 Nm so this might be better suited to my level of fitness and the kind of terrain I ride. They are going to see if they can get hold of a demonstrator bike for me to ride.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

We found the same Nev, the Fazua motor is perfect for a fit rider who may need help keeping up with the group on a Saturday fun run.

Our Carbon bike was working out at about £9,000 I am not sure there is a big enough market for such machines!

It was good project it taught us a lot and bought people onto our exhibition stands in droves, however commercially we are not convinced it is worth the investment.

All the best, David

 

[Crockers]

David
How are things progressing with the step through bike ?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Crockers, the carbon Wayfarer it's going well thanks but is unlikely to be ready until the summer of next year.

We have three new alloy bikes for next year too, these are more aimed at the mass market. All with 400 or 600Wh in-frame batteries with a new mid motor that we have been helping to develop over the last couple of years, the 48V Wisper HT 108Nm. The motor finished all it's trials very early and we are prioritising these bikes over everything else at the moment. They will be more mass market than the carbon offerings.

The step through and cross bar versions will be built with 27.5" wheels, 2.2" Schwalbe Moto X tyres and the 20" will have proportionately the same look. They are designed to be used on a commute as well as on trails and tow paths. A bit wild but we think there is a good market. we hope to sell these bikes at a little under £2,000.

We have now finished the design for the frame, battery and the casting that will hold the motor. All very exciting...


We will most likely not be using the square taper version.

The CNC models will be ready for my next visit to Taiwan in a couple of weeks.

These bikes will be augmenting our range, we will be continuing with our current Torque and SE bikes for the foreseeable future.

All the best, David

 

[Jonah]

Do you have any more frame pictures?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I had trouble loading it. Ill try later