We haven't quite reached World War Eleven yet, thank goodness!
I think you meant WWII (i.e. Roman numerals).
P.S. It's great this pedantry stuff, isn't it?
.
Last edited:
The French put a stop to it.
- Thread starter neptune
- Start date
I think you meant WWII (i.e. Roman numerals).
P.S. It's great this pedantry stuff, isn't it?
.
What I like about it Lynda is the way is balances all those views that life elsewhere is better. We had a radio program about the French in Kent and a London area TV program about the French in London, and the most noteworthy thing was that they often live here because they much prefer it, not always because of their job.Those are surprising facts Flecc, you never cease to amaze me, I would never have imagined it being that high, but thinking about it....yes, quite understandable and believable.
Lynda
Their children in particular, both the younger and teenagers, almost all preferred England to a degree that clearly surprised the program presenters, and I have to say, me too. One who was forced to spend a couple of weeks holiday back in France to see grandparents was none too impressed about that!
Indalo. I did not know that Michel Thomas was a Polish Jew. Whatever his nationality, we both agree he was a gifted teacher of languages. I knew a guy once, a fellow truck driver, who years previously spent many weeks in prison in France. He was accused of being involved in a drug smuggling ring. He was innocent and was finally aquitted. But as result, he spoke quite fluent French, including all the swear words
On the balance, though, the Michel Thomas method is probably less painful!
My favourite sntence in French was " parlez lentement pour moi, s`il vouz plait."
On the balance, though, the Michel Thomas method is probably less painful!
My favourite sntence in French was " parlez lentement pour moi, s`il vouz plait."
Hi. I have to agree with you on Spanish parking it seems as long as the their hazards on its ok??? and not just roundabouts what about the damn pedestrian crossings every 50 mtrs ???? But if you drive like them you get on fine (ie when they come charging up to stop signs and they look as though they are going to come out in front of you IGNORE THEM and they will stop ) go by Their rules and your fine????.
I spend a large chunk of my year in France and I can only say that the French are very little different from the English. I do speak French which helps but I am always surprised by definitive statements about 60 million people as if they were all alike and of one opinion.
Would anyone speak about a Londoner and an Orkney fisherman as if they were the same - all British? Of course not. Yet we talk of 'the French' as if they are all the same, Parisian fashion designer and Pyrenean shepherd.
You think the French drive crazily fast? Take a drive around the M25. You think French food is great? Go to a tourist restaurant in a Provençal tourist hilltop tourist village.
The one big difference that I do find is that French car drivers treat cyclists with a great deal more respect than do English drivers. May be to do with the fact that in an accident the car driver is presumed to be at fault.
I can say from personal experience that I have met many British who simply don't like the French. But from some years living in France I can equally say that I have not found that feeling much reciprocated.
Many French are rather formal and correct in their behaviour, more like the English were in the 50s and that is often interpreted by the much more 'in yer face' British as arrogance or stand-offishness. That's a misinterpretation. The French are as formal to each other as they are to foreigners.
My next door neighbours in my Languedoc village resolutely addressed me as Monsieur until I asked them to call me David. It took a while longer before my next door neighbour accepted being addressed as Jean-Claude rather than Monsieur Grange, however.
Personally, I don't mind that but I know that many British feel they are being treated as inferiors. They aren't but lacking knowledge of the culture and language, it's easy to understand why they think so.
Would anyone speak about a Londoner and an Orkney fisherman as if they were the same - all British? Of course not. Yet we talk of 'the French' as if they are all the same, Parisian fashion designer and Pyrenean shepherd.
You think the French drive crazily fast? Take a drive around the M25. You think French food is great? Go to a tourist restaurant in a Provençal tourist hilltop tourist village.
The one big difference that I do find is that French car drivers treat cyclists with a great deal more respect than do English drivers. May be to do with the fact that in an accident the car driver is presumed to be at fault.
I can say from personal experience that I have met many British who simply don't like the French. But from some years living in France I can equally say that I have not found that feeling much reciprocated.
Many French are rather formal and correct in their behaviour, more like the English were in the 50s and that is often interpreted by the much more 'in yer face' British as arrogance or stand-offishness. That's a misinterpretation. The French are as formal to each other as they are to foreigners.
My next door neighbours in my Languedoc village resolutely addressed me as Monsieur until I asked them to call me David. It took a while longer before my next door neighbour accepted being addressed as Jean-Claude rather than Monsieur Grange, however.
Personally, I don't mind that but I know that many British feel they are being treated as inferiors. They aren't but lacking knowledge of the culture and language, it's easy to understand why they think so.
Last edited:
I read this thread with interest, having studied the French language for many years and spent much time driving there. It is interesting how all languages are evolving continually. Did anyone notice how Flec spelt "program" as in "radio programme". American English seems to be taking over here more and more particularly in the business world.
I speak a reasonable amount of French and I think that that is what makes the difference. I find the French to be just the same as the British. Once you mix with them rather than being just a visitor, it is difficult to find much difference. Certainly in the South, their attitude to animals and firearms may be different to ours, but not startlingly so. Just don't expect them to be exactly the same.
Wish I was there!Oops......yes, I stand corrected and have spanked myself accordingly
Lynda
You weren't to know of course, but may I correct your false impression?
I very deliberately insist on the spelling "program" because that is the correct English language spelling at all times. It is a form of spelling that American settlers took there for hundreds of years and have properly retained.
The word programme is a French word which has no place in the English language. Early in the 1800s a handful of the wealthy chattering classes in London adopted the affectation of spelling many words in the French manner to show off their education and many words were affected in this way. Many of the other English people being the snobs they so often tended to be imitated that silly affectation.
During this time the Oxford English Dictionary was being founded and as a result these affected words found their way into it in droves. But of course like all silly fashions, this one didn't last and the Oxford English Dictionary gradually lost the inappropriate spellings. Therefore we no longer write anagramme for example, though that was in that dictionary briefly. But for some unknown reason the spelling of programme escaped the cleansing, probably overlooked since there was less reason to use it in the nineteenth century other than in an entertainment contest like the theatre where affectations are rife anyway.
That of course was an error of omission, so accordingly I correct it and spell program correctly.
Do I have any independent authority for my contention? Yes, the Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language. ISBN 0-521-40179-8
.
Last edited:
Two examples.
1 I was in Oleron Ste. Marie with a French friend. I heard some one shooting what was obvioulsy a 0.22 rifle in an orchard about 100 yards away. I was alarmed and pointed this out. Almost as if it was no account, my friend just said 'Yes' and carried on with his conversation.
2 At Peyrehorade, they have a street market. One of the stalls was selling rifles. I saw a prospective purchaser pick up one of the rifles and aim it at the chimney pots to check the telescopic sight. No-one batted an eyelid.
3 There is a corrida at Mont de Masarn where they hold bull fights. A French woman who had lived and worked in New York told me that she had not been to it, but would go 'If the fight was very beautiful.' Delivered in a strong New York accent, I found this quite bizarre.
Yes! For a while I thought I might be the only one in here, but it is reassuring to see a (insert suitable collective noun) of pedants forming.P.S. It's great this pedantry stuff, isn't it?
.
Incidentally, for no logical reason (though I worked in broadcasting for most of my adult life), I tend to refer to radio and TV programmes, but computer programs. I suppose they are fairly different concepts.
I think the collective a grammar of pedants would fit well.
Your use of programme fits my supposition that it was possibly the theatrical event usage that allowed that spelling to persist despite it's invalidity. Even if one disregards the origins of these French anachronisms in the English language that I've highlighted above, the correct and approved use of gram instead of gramme outside of France is an indication of the validity of the spelling program for all purposes elsewhere.
I don't think that you can rule out the use of words beacause of how they came into or remain in the language. It is the glory of English that it is a melting-pot of words from many sources, and it is ultimately usage that determines words' survival. We don't want to be like the Academie Francaise trying desperately and failing miserably to preserve their language in aspic.
Absolutely! Quoting dictionaries and sources is useless with a living changing thing like English. It is almost as if someone 'owns' the language and can say what is right or wrong.
What makes English unique is that it is the only language in the world where there are more non-native speakers than native. About 1 billion non native and 60 million native, in fact. Its strength is that it has no absolute rules, can be mangled and 'pronounced funny' but remain understandable.
From my personal almost musical favourite, the Jamaican patois to broad Glaswegian to pidgin, it is all 'proper' English.
I love the French language and love speaking it but it is hidebound and, like, for example, Welsh, has to import English (actually, mostly American) words to keep up with the modern world.
Some French friends of mine enjoy speaking English as I enjoy speaking French. I pointed out to them that actually, they spoke American. It's lost on them, of course. When they come to England their American English is seamlessly understood so they fail to comprehend (or care about) the difference. That is for English people and their dictionaries.
I wouldn't advocate that either Roger, but I make an exception with program for four very good reasons. The tiny number of very unrepresentative citizens who introduced the French affectation; it's unintended and mistaken adoption into a newly formed dictionary with the intended but missed correction; the unnecessarily cumbersome nature of the affected spelling; and the now universal adoption of program in computing with parallel widespread adoption of that true spelling for all purposes.
My purpose is to hasten the last mentioned which is happening anyway. After all, even the French use program too now!
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
