It is many years now since I last travelled in France. One thing that stuck me as strange was the French Stop signs. That is exactly what they say-stop. I would have expected them to display the word "Arrete" if that is how it is spelt. I seem to remember General Degaule starting a campaign to stop the use of non French words in the French language. For example, the use of "le weekend" even though there is no equivalent term in French. So "stop" seems strange , especially as there has always been some anti English feeling in some parts of France. Any theories?
The French put a stop to it.
- Thread starter neptune
- Start date
It's not unusual Neptune. I have seen the word also in Spain. The word "Halt" crops up too and most europeans of the baby-boom generation know several English words, indeed many of them had to learn English at school and that is still the case. We too do languages, of course.
Incidentally, my experience of France and the French is vastly different from the anti-English sentiment you mention. I have always found them warm, welcoming and friendly. There is a lot of myth involved in these national characteristics and caricatures born of rivalry, jealousy, perhaps even hatred.
One thing I have learned through my travels over the years is that working people don't differ much in their lifestyles nor in their aspirations, regardless of the country. Weather influences some aspects of how we all live our lives but we have huge amounts in common with our european neighbours and also with those people even further afield. My passport says I'm British but it doesn't say anything else about me and there are lots of different types of Britons. It's the same for people in other countries.
Indalo
Incidentally, my experience of France and the French is vastly different from the anti-English sentiment you mention. I have always found them warm, welcoming and friendly. There is a lot of myth involved in these national characteristics and caricatures born of rivalry, jealousy, perhaps even hatred.
One thing I have learned through my travels over the years is that working people don't differ much in their lifestyles nor in their aspirations, regardless of the country. Weather influences some aspects of how we all live our lives but we have huge amounts in common with our european neighbours and also with those people even further afield. My passport says I'm British but it doesn't say anything else about me and there are lots of different types of Britons. It's the same for people in other countries.
Indalo
I agree that the French do seem to have a propensity for driving their little Clios, Twingos and the like pedal to metal but I have found their driving otherwise to be fairly reasonable unlike the Spanish and Portugese for example who are just hopeless on the road. Spain, apparently, has one of the most rigorous driving tests in europe but I'd rather drive in France as I often do.
Somebody in Spain's government must have sent an envoy over to Britain to see how we control traffic because speed humps and roundabouts have been popping up everywhere in southern Spain over the last 5 years or so. Unfortunately, the Spanish appear to have not the slightest clue how to negotiate a "rotunda" but they don't care. Also, those of you familiar with their parking arrangements will understand only too well that they don't so much park a car as abandon it!
Cycling is for the very brave in some parts down there.
Indalo
Hi,
We still have quite a few British words in French. Weekend is a good example
In the case of Stop, my guess would be that the formulation is much shorter in English than its equivalent in French (i,e Arretez-vous or Arret obligatoire (with the accents)).
In regards to the French/British relations I completely agree, as a French expat, it does not feel that different. If only, there was bread and wine
Goryl
We still have quite a few British words in French. Weekend is a good example
In the case of Stop, my guess would be that the formulation is much shorter in English than its equivalent in French (i,e Arretez-vous or Arret obligatoire (with the accents)).
In regards to the French/British relations I completely agree, as a French expat, it does not feel that different. If only, there was bread and wine
Goryl
I cant remember when the stop signs werent stop signs neptune......
I think its a myth about french attitudes towards the brits .We are all the same its just they have better wine
As for Driving....The first time I lived in Spain, 36 years ago, they used to dread the 'french holiday weeks' because of the fatalities caused by french drivers, but that was when far less spanish people had cars than in france, now its a different story, mad as the french drivers are they are not a patch on the Portugese .... definitely the worst.....but yep the spanish are right behind and having seen at first hand with my youngest son just how hard the driving test is...and complicated (but then isnt everything in spain ).....I cant understand how they are still such bad drivers and put it down to their macho men mentality.....in other words they do what is necessary to get their licences and then promptly forget it all and continue trying to prove themselves the fastest most daring driver in the area with scant regard to the rest of the population.
Happily as my son is english and thankfully lacks the 'macho attitude' he has turned into a very well taught and skillful driver thanks to the stringent spanish tests !
The 'speed hump saga' in my local spanish town has been a ridiculous long running war of council putting speed humps, local gypsy population removing as much as possible during the night, council replacing etc etc until now we must have the best collection of mountainous concrete speed 'bumps' in the world ......not funny in a car and almost catastrophic in a motorhome !!
Ah the joys of ''vive la differance'' !
Lynda
I think its a myth about french attitudes towards the brits .We are all the same its just they have better wine
As for Driving....The first time I lived in Spain, 36 years ago, they used to dread the 'french holiday weeks' because of the fatalities caused by french drivers, but that was when far less spanish people had cars than in france, now its a different story, mad as the french drivers are they are not a patch on the Portugese .... definitely the worst.....but yep the spanish are right behind and having seen at first hand with my youngest son just how hard the driving test is...and complicated (but then isnt everything in spain ).....I cant understand how they are still such bad drivers and put it down to their macho men mentality.....in other words they do what is necessary to get their licences and then promptly forget it all and continue trying to prove themselves the fastest most daring driver in the area with scant regard to the rest of the population.
Happily as my son is english and thankfully lacks the 'macho attitude' he has turned into a very well taught and skillful driver thanks to the stringent spanish tests !
The 'speed hump saga' in my local spanish town has been a ridiculous long running war of council putting speed humps, local gypsy population removing as much as possible during the night, council replacing etc etc until now we must have the best collection of mountainous concrete speed 'bumps' in the world ......not funny in a car and almost catastrophic in a motorhome !!
Ah the joys of ''vive la differance'' !
Lynda
Well, the first question is
'Is stop an English word?'
From various dictionaries it seems to have come both from Latin and Germanic languages in various older forms.
In fact, there are not many truly English words.
'Is stop an English word?'
From various dictionaries it seems to have come both from Latin and Germanic languages in various older forms.
In fact, there are not many truly English words.
All words are English words - as a language it has very eclectic tastes. This makes it much richer than almost all others, while still managing to convey the same information in dramatically fewer syllables. This richness shows itself all the time. How do the Welsh and Irish manage with no word for entrepreneur, to quote a classic example.
I have a French friend who lives in Kent who 'drives' a sporty Clio and altho I have been involved with motor sport and love the odd burn out, she terrifies me. How does a nice gentle lady turn so wild behind the wheel? Her local garage must make a fortune replacing clutches and engine mounts for her. And I must learn French swearwords so I can understand what she is shouting at other drivers.
The only thing I ever drove in France was a 38 tonne artic. I met some very nice people in France. I do not personally remember encountering any anti English feeling. Just as we refer to the French as "frogs", they refer to the English as "Rosbifs" as in roast beef. I used to deliver regularly to Marks and Spencer in Paris,and my nick name was Monsieur le Rosbif. I failed "o" level French at school, but was amazed at how much I remembered when I needed it, and even more amazed that I could make myself understood. As a result, I started studying the language by playing some CDs I bought. Happy days.
It is interesting to note that many parts of an aircraft have French names- fuselage, aileron, empennage etc. This is because the French were the earliest aviators in Europe.
It is interesting to note that many parts of an aircraft have French names- fuselage, aileron, empennage etc. This is because the French were the earliest aviators in Europe.
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To be honest I find driving in France to be a dream especially when on two wheels & only the Low Countries better for cycling. France still have cops who bother about traffic violations & speed traps & by and large the majority of drivers (bar Paris) obey the rules and even slow down in the rain!
As far as top signs go I like the Irish 'Yield', it always brings a smile to my face.
As far as top signs go I like the Irish 'Yield', it always brings a smile to my face.
They probably don't have a requirement for this word ... and if they had an entrepreneur, it is unlikely anybody would be able to play it ...
Yes, the Portugese were long time European champions where bad driving is concerned. Not long ago with a 22 millions population they used to road kill 9000 people each year on average, a shocking 8 times the UK rate at that time. Since then the EU has been attacking this issue Europe wide, enforcing improvement measures on all countries, and all countries road death rates have dropped dramatically, the UK's down by a third and Portugal's down by nearly three quarters and not very much worse than ours now.
The interchangeable use of the French and English languages is probably more appropriate now than at any other time in history. While it's widely recognised here in Britain that a huge number of Brits live in France, it's not widely appreciated that's reciprocated by equally large numbers of Franch living here, mainly in England. London is the sixth largest French city in the world with over 400,000 French people living in that city, 1 in 20 Londoners now being French. The situation in Kent is similar with possible an even higher proportion of French citizens. These positions were highlighted by the fact that at the most recent French elections many candidates canvassed in England as well as France to ensure they gathered in all their votes.
This is a very positive step towards the sanity of a future world with one common language instead of the Babel chaos of over 300 languages.
This is a very positive step towards the sanity of a future world with one common language instead of the Babel chaos of over 300 languages.
One thing I learned on my travels is this. If you plan to spend some time in a country, learn a little of the language. It will make your life easier, and win you some respect. Being able to say please, and thank you, hello, and goodbye is a start. Next job is to learn to ask for directions, and understand the instructions given. So things like, road, bridge , roundabout, traffic lights, left and right etc. Do not worry about grammar and the order of words initially. If you say le instead of la, it is no big deal. Want to learn more?
Get hold of the CDs by Michel Thomas. He is German, and the best language teacher in the world, bar none. His claim to teach you a language in a week is a bit OTT, but the results are still amazing.
Get hold of the CDs by Michel Thomas. He is German, and the best language teacher in the world, bar none. His claim to teach you a language in a week is a bit OTT, but the results are still amazing.
Oops......yes, I stand corrected and have spanked myself accordinglyI hate to be a pedant, but I think it should be 'fewer' not 'less'.
Lynda
Those are surprising facts Flecc, you never cease to amaze me, I would never have imagined it being that high, but thinking about it....yes, quite understandable and believable.
Lynda
Yes Neptune, I agree entirely with your remarks and I too think Michel Thomas' method is very good for learning the rudiments of various languages quickly. Anyone can learn quickly how to speak a language but the ability to receive and understand can only be gained in the company of those native speakers. For most of us, that necessitates a classroom situation or a personal tutor but it's the easiest system I ever used to pick up the basics.
With respect, if I may just correct you on one point; the man was a Polish Jew and fought against the Germans in WW11.
Indalo
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