The end of the Pedelec!

[flecc]

anything is better than simply replacing the current ICE car with an E car.

I think that's too simplistic, given the huge range of things a car can do that an e-bike and especally a scooter cannot do.

For a very high proportion an e-car is and will remain the best replacement for an ic car.
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[trevor brooker]

I think that's too simplistic, given the huge range of things a car can do that an e-bike and especally a scooter cannot do.

For a very high proportion an e-car is and will remain the best replacement for an ic car.
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Agreed for the circumstances that a car is best for
Multiple occupants
long journeys
heavy/large loads

But I was thinking about the current users of scooters - sole riders/ no luggage
I think they might have a place as part of the personal transport options.
I was just thinking what that might be

 

[flecc]

In fact a paper was issued by DfT in 2015 that recognises the benefit of e-bikes to elderly and disabled and says that pedalling would be overlooked so long as other aspects of legislation were adhered to. It just needs a committee to decide: How elderly? How disabled?

There is no need for a committee since it is nothing to do with degrees of disability or age.

This UK only ruling applies to anyone of any ability, so long as the e-bike is taken through single vehicle approval first at their own expense. That isn't easy to do though, at present there seems to be only one testing station available, at Southampton. In the almost five years since then, I only know of one e-bike taken through the process, so not a great success story.

The whole thing is rather silly now that we've left the EU, the government through the DfT are now entitled to simply issue a waiver for throttle use. They've previously done that between 13th April 2013 and 6th April 2015 in the matter of permitted power rating where that waiver didn't breach EU law, so they can do it again now we are not bound by EU membership.

Then at an opportune and convenient moment they can amend the UK law to make the waiver unnecessary, just as they did last time.
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[trevor brooker]

There is no need for a committee since it is nothing to do with degrees of disability or age.

This UK only ruling applies to anyone of any ability, so long as the e-bike is taken through single vehicle approval first at their own expense. That isn't easy to do though, at present there seems to be only one testing station available, at Southampton. In the almost five years since then, I only know of one e-bike taken through the process, so not a great success story.

The whole thing is rather silly now that we've left the EU, the government through the DfT are now entitled to simply issue a waiver for throttle use. They've previously done that between 13th April 2013 and 6th April 2015 in the matter of permitted power rating where that waiver didn't breach EU law, so they can do it again now we are not bound by EU membership.

Then at an opportune and convenient moment they can amend the UK law to make the waiver unnecessary, just as they did last time.
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How do we get the politicians to take an interest in what at the moment is a niche form of transport, but with climate change it has the ability to get people of of their car & get some exercise (win/win0?

 

[flecc]

Agreed for the circumstances that a car is best for
Multiple occupants
long journeys
heavy/large loads

But I was thinking about the current users of scooters - sole riders/ no luggage
I think they might have a place as part of the personal transport options.
I was just thinking what that might be

Yes I fully agree, but unfortunately the three things you list are done by almost all car drivers at times, so replacing the car isn't an option.

Sadly once people get behind the wheel, the comfort, convenience and weather protection means few in the UK will use two wheels when that would suffice. Where that does happen to a large degree is where they never gave up cycling in the first place.

I've tried far harder than most as the below shows, but now it's the electric car that does it, for multiple good reasons:

 

[flecc]

How do we get the politicians to take an interest in what at the moment is a niche form of transport, but with climate change it has the ability to get people of of their car & get some exercise (win/win0?

It's just not important enough to them, just as in Northern Ireland where a simple addition is needed to the law to allow pedelecs to be legal there, but we are struggling to get their Assembly to actually do that.

You may remember the mess here in the UK when almost all e-bikes were technically illegal and open to prosecution. It took 10 years for the DfT to issue a waiver and 12 years before changing the law. That is how unimportant we are and continue to be.
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[trevor brooker]

Yes I fully agree, but unfortunately the three things you list are done by almost all car drivers at times, so replacing the car isn't an option.

Sadly once people get behind the wheel, the comfort, convenience and weather protection means few in the UK will use two wheels when that would suffice. Where that does happen to a large degree is where they never gave up cycling in the first place.

I've tried far harder than most as the below shows, but now it's the electric car that does it, for multiple good reasons:

I use my ebike as an alternative rather than a replacement to the car. When I need the abilities the car offers I borrow one, other than that for the last 8 years the bike has been my primary transport.

Before that I was a company car user, so I had no history of cycling.

I hope that if enough of a jolt to the lazy usage of cars can be made, that where the circumstances apply that drivers will switch.

I expect that the only option would be taxation, as removal of parking would bring forward self driving car.

 

[flecc]

Before that I was a company car user, so I had no history of cycling.

I hope that if enough of a jolt to the lazy usage of cars can be made, that where the circumstances apply that drivers will switch.

And not the only one, but in a small minority. Our infrastructure is all too often nightmarishly dangerous for cycling, deterring the majority.

As for enforcement, any government that tried to restrict car driving beyond public acceptability would find itself out of office in a flash, they know it and it's why they don't dare.

Enforcement can work to an extent locally, as witness the London Congestion Charge high cost which has created about a quarter of a million cyclists, but that's still less than 1 in 32 of those in London who could cycle.
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[trevor brooker]

What is it like pulling a bike trailer?
I've filled my panniers with so much weight that its hard to keep the bike upright, but as soon as you start to move you don't notice any difference

 

[flecc]

What is it like pulling a bike trailer?
I've filled my panniers with so much weight that its hard to keep the bike upright, but as soon as you start to move you don't notice any difference

It mostly depends on the type of trailer hitch. Seatpost ones are generally horrible since the trailer nose weight is too high up, unbalancing in the way that high pannier loads can.

The popular nearside of rear spindle ones are much better, the weight low down.

In both cases the connection needs to be rigid, some based on a connecting coil spring can result in the trailer and load pulsing back and forth on the spring extension, pushing and pulling the bike unexpectedly forwards and back with a heavy load.

Best of all with an e-bike is to have a rear of wheel car style towball connection, stable and ensuring the trailer accurately follows the path of the bike. That's important for pedestrian safety on shared use paths. Those ball joint connectors are very rare though so it often means DIY. In the photo below both trailers have ball joints, and you can see more on these two links:

Link one

Link two

 

[LeighPing]

How would a scooter help me with exercise and health ?

You could scoot from time to time to benefit your health. I have a push scooter that I attach to my dog. At full tilt 'lickety split' we've hit as much as 25 mph. At slower speeds I kick scoot a bit to keep things steady. That action also takes the load off my German Shepherd, who trots at a sedentary 10-12 mph.

They will be for the lazy people who don't wan't any exercise.
Only use of any good will be for commuters in large towns and cities.

And also for the potential mass market, of those under 14 years of age, that are deemed too young to use an ebike. On a downhill stretch, I've had kids as young as 7 keep up with me, on their small wheeled, stunt scooters, whilst I was doing 15.5 mph around the local country park.

 

[mr-motorvator]

I think we can be sure that scooters will only be allowed on the road/cycle lanes.

Tiny wheels are a hazard: the smallest stone or hole can have you off. Kickbikes ride better as well as larger wheel scooters like Swifty (349 wheels)

 

[flecc]

And also for the potential mass market, of those under 14 years of age, that are deemed too young to use an ebike.

But only for unpowered scooters, the 14 years minimum age will still apply for powered ones if and when permitted.
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[Hightechpete]

It seems that many people have a downer on e-scooters, I think they can serve a useful function especially in cities. If it cuts down on traffic congestion and pollution it's got to be good, they can be carried on tubes, trains and buses and would be useful for 'the last mile' as they say.

I can foresee problems as they will be used on pavements, but pedestrians and cyclists mix better than cyclists and cars. It's up to government to ensure speed restrictions are upheld. I believe an increase in the numbers of e-scooters will have a beneficial effect especially to e-bikers.

I also take exception to the suggestion that they are only for lazy people.
I'm currently looking to buy an e-scooter with a seat for my son, he is a city dweller and lost a leg through sepsis a couple of years ago. He refuses to use a wheelchair or invalid scooter because of the stigma attached to the disabled, he currently gets around on crutches.

Incidentally, I was at my local Lidl yesterday. They have a their scooter on sale for £175, I believe that they are close to £400 elsewhere.

 

[Bobajob]

Some good ideas here - apart from the sitting or standing nonsense: does the scooter have different rules according to wether you sit or stand? What if it has a seat but you choose to stand?

I am 'pedaling impaired' so I focus on the Special Needs side, so for me pedalling has always been an issue of ability rather than laziness.

In fact a paper was issued by DfT in 2015 that recognises the benefit of e-bikes to elderly and disabled and says that pedalling would be overlooked so long as other aspects of legislation were adhered to. It just needs a committee to decide: How elderly? How disabled?

No cadence or torque sensor system has ever bettered the brain: pedal and twist - you decide.

These papers regarding more or less looking the other way does come down onto the street though. There is one problem there and that’s plod.
They have a hard enough job keeping up with very basic laws, to put common sense into the mix will throw them completely. They will just nick you and confiscate the bike.