The Electric Bicycle Club of Britain

[Patrick]

I think a lot of people on this forum like to pedal,but most of the bikes i have seen locally were crawling along with no attempts to pedal at all,personally i pedal almost all the time but enjoy the option to use the throttle if i need a short rest, and also to control the amount of power i want to add to my pedalling.

You'd still be able to use a throttle to control the amount of assistance you get, that wouldn't be affected by the proposed changes.

You'd even be able to rest and let the motor do all the work, just so long as you continue turning the pedals. There's nothing in the proposals about a minimum level of rider input (as there in in Japanese law), so riding under throttle while you pedal air would be allowed.

Like all good compromises having a system that requires pantomime pedaling to keep the motor running isn't something that anyone really wants, but it does help make the distinction between electrically assisted pedal cycles and motorcycles almost logical.

 

[Patrick]

So in the mean time we are asking for a new class of electric bike to be considered. With a throttle, more powerful motor and higher top speed, these bikes would be far more useful to someone with a mobility issue.

Would these be referred to as "Pedal Assisted Electric Cycles" to go with the "Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles" we're already riding?

 

[Alex728]

Ebike manufacturers don't have the power to buck the system other than via the proper channels. they are the ones who are going to get their shipments seized by Customs / Trading Standards or whoever if they don't comply to the rules whatever they are (as opposed to hobby builders where there is a big grey area as to what is allowed).

One difference between the UK and Europe is "bending the rules" is far less tolerated here when it comes to regulations, someone always tips off the authorities in the end.. Of course the end customers won't dob them in (and lose a useful feature) but their competitors will. Just look at the arguments between the rival e-bike dealers / companies on this forum. Do you think that if they have the opportunity to make an "anonymous complaint" to a regulator they won't use it, to cause pain to a commercial rival? It will only get more cut-throat as the market for ebikes expands..

I very rarely use my Wisper on "power only", its usually a combination of pedalling and throttle.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

my god, you actualy belive that. You may sell great bikes, but I think you need to talk to a wider group of electric bike dealers and users to get a picture of how many people pedal their bike....of course 100% of people who buy pedal assist only do...but you want us to belive that 99% of the people who buy a bike with a power option pedal it ?

Absolutely Dan!

I have spent a lot of time researching all over Europe and yes I am positive, ok maybe not 99% which is a figure of speech, but definitely over 90%. I failed however to consider China which of course is a different matter, in my experience only about 50/60% pedal there. However the majority of electric bikes used in China are not built for pedalling. If the Chinese had the kind of electric bikes sold in the rest of the world I am certain they too would be in the 90's.

All the best

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Would these be referred to as "Pedal Assisted Electric Cycles" to go with the "Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles" we're already riding?

Hi Patrick

These would be Electric Bikes rather than Pedelecs or EPACs.

All the best

David

 

[Alex728]

Absolutely Dan!

However the majority of electric bikes used in China are not built for pedalling. If the Chinese had the kind of electric bikes sold in the rest of the world I am certain they too would be in the 90's.

All the best

David

and it has been discussed here and reported by both Chinese and international media is that this phenomenon is really due to the Chinese not enforcing their own traffic rules for many years.

Most other jurisdictions would put the Chinese "e-bikes" into the moped/small scooter category - in fact even the chinese do this but until now hadn't enforced the laws as strictly with regard to max speed/power.

Riders were given a surprising amount of freedom and lack of regulation in China and abused it, injuring themselves and others, so they are now going to get a clampdown!

 

[dan]

Absolutely Dan!

I have spent a lot of time researching all over Europe and yes I am positive, ok maybe not 99% which is a figure of speech, but definitely over 90%. I failed however to consider China which of course is a different matter, in my experience only about 50/60% pedal there. However the majority of electric bikes used in China are not built for pedalling. If the Chinese had the kind of electric bikes sold in the rest of the world I am certain they too would be in the 90's.

All the best

David

I was not talking about Europe or China but the UK were we can use power only bikes.....nowhere near 90% of electric bike users in the UK pedal all of time....I spoke to a dealer yesterday in Lancashire that sell a number of different make of electric bikes, including yours, and he expects that if he can only sell bikes that will only work whilst pedalling he will lose more than 50% of his sales... a couple of the bikes he sells come in pedal assist mode, but can be converted to power only and pedal assist, he told me that almost 100% of those type of bikes he has sold, the customers asked for them to be converted to dual mode.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks for your input Dan, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Best regards

David

 

[flecc]

Certainly the large "shopper" e-bike market served by the likes of Thompsons is a non-pedalling market.

Thompson senior himself has gone on record as saying "Our customers won't pedal".
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Not all that surprised Flecc!



This is exactly what is ridden in China.

Best Regards

David

 

[Bigbee]

Hi Dan

BEBA would of course prefer throttles to be kept on electric bikes. Our problem is that there is a move to ban electric vehicles with throttles from cycle paths and believe that would cause the industry big problems. We will have at least a year to make the changes to electric bike throttles.

So in the mean time we are asking for a new class of electric bike to be considered. With a throttle, more powerful motor and higher top speed, these bikes would be far more useful to someone with a mobility issue.

We have to pick our battles!

All the best

David

Im confused You're asking for more powerful motors than 250W?I was speaking to some one who worked for a large ebike distributor.Theyve been in long talks with Dept of Transport( I think it was them ) and they say 250W motors will be come illegal.Any companies that continue to sell 250W and above will be prosecuted.200W is going to be the max allowed.The company I was talking to are dumping all their 250W bikes and waiting for delivery of 200W ones.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Im confused You're asking for more powerful motors than 250W?I was speaking to some one who worked for a large ebike distributor.Theyve been in long talks with Dept of Transport( I think it was them ) and they say 250W motors will be come illegal.Any companies that continue to sell 250W and above will be prosecuted.200W is going to be the max allowed.The company I was talking to are dumping all their 250W bikes and waiting for delivery of 200W ones.

Hi Bigbee

I would think the company in question are doing a little bit of marketing!

I have not heard of anything that remotely suggests this is the case. Which electric bike firm was this? I would like to speak to them as if they are telling the truth I really do need to know. If you don't want to say publicly please email me on dmiall@me.com

UK was told by Brussels to adopt the EU standard months ago. Wisper would fight any moves against the 250W motor in court, we have already taken advice and have been told we would be in a very strong position.

We are not asking for more power in the Pedelecs class but are suggesting a new class is created more akin to the moped.

All the best,

David

 

[aussiejeff]

I think a lot of people on this forum like to pedal,but most of the bikes i have seen locally were crawling along with no attempts to pedal at all,personally i pedal almost all the time but enjoy the option to use the throttle if i need a short rest, and also to control the amount of power i want to add to my pedalling.

Hi fishingpaul.

Absolutely agree with that bit. Exactly how I ride - mostly 95% pedalling to assist - but occasionally if I feel like it, just dawdle along and rest me weary bones. I am 60 so feel I have earned the right to brief rests!

BTW, all this silly talk about limiting the use of throttles on pedelecs - or stuff like "may only use throttle only up to 6kph" has me wondering sumfink.

How about electric wheelchairs??? Don't THEY have NO PEDAL throttle controlled electric power - up to 12kph? (c'mon, peeps - surely you have seen some of these terrors careening down the pavement with no helmets and a toothless grin from ear to ear as they *whistle* past)?

Err... I see the speed limit for them in UK is technically 6kph on pedestrian pavements and "up to" 12kph max on road. Oh, so they are ALL fitted with speedometers and speed limiters by law, so that all law-abiding wheelchair users can stay within the law? Sure.

Maybe the lawmakers, in their esteemed wisdom *coff* can slap the following suggested new rulez on all electric wheelchair drivers as well while they're at it, just to make it "more fair":

1 - MUST wear BMX style helmets at all times.
2 - MUST bounce up and down in seat when under throttle power
3 - MUST never do a burnout in front of Jeremy Clarkson for fear he will pop 'is clogs...

Geeez. Maybe living back in the caveman days really WAS better in some respects. We are being legislated to death (yeah, we Colonials have it just as bad or worse)!!

Sigh...

Good luck, Ye Olde Darters.....


aj
Wodonga
VIC

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Would be a good idea but as BEBA is supporting the removal of the use of a throttle, a lot of disabled people who can not pedal would not be able to use an Ebike if the legislation is changed

FYI Dan BEBA is not supporting removal of the throttle.

All the best

David

 

[Alex728]

Err... I see the speed limit for them in UK is technically 6kph on pedestrian pavements and "up to" 12kph max on road. Oh, so they are ALL fitted with speedometers and speed limiters by law, so that all law-abiding wheelchair users can stay within the law? Sure.

where I live there is a larger elderly population and two local constabularies are taking the issue of badly driven mobility scooters quite seriously, as there have already been injury and even fatal collisions

 

[Apetito]

Electric Bikes Rule O.K.

Just nipped into town to Morrisons for urgent supplies for tonight's meal on my FreeGo Eagle. Round trip only 7 miles. Without the E.B. we would have gone without said urgent supplies. Not worth getting the car out.
Days of 100% pedalling are gone at 71 years old, Dynesys in my back and a six month old full replacement knee.
Electric Bikes Rule !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony of Graveney