The British and bikes

I have often wondered what it is in the British psyche that makes them anti-bicycle. Perhaps it had its origins in the earliest days when the rich young men - the only ones who could afford them - went hurtling around on their Oridinaries seemingly terrifying old ladies and animals. It is an attitude peculiar to GB.

Sweden I found to be a cycling heaven. Every town had its own dedicated, properly built and maintained cycle paths, they even had their own traffic lights. Once when we came to a pedestrianised area in a major city there was no provision for cyclists. You simply rode amongst the pedestrians, and no one turned a hair! As a properly brought up Brit I found it quite hard to cope with!! So simple. The rule seems to be that pedestrians and motor traffic are kept apart, and in this context cyclists seem to be pedestrians on wheels.

Out of town the dual carriageways were no problem, plenty of room for sensible overtaking by motor traffic. When we got on to single roads you could hear the big trucks coming down through the gears waiting for a suitable moment to come past. As the cab came alongside a thank you wave from me would be answered with a 'no problem' flick of the tail lights once he was safely past.

Now not every country was like this but even in countries where allegedly the motorists drive like lunatics we found that that they did not pass us dangerously close. In fact you soon know that when a car does, and especially if he has a caravan behind, that when he is past it will be a GB reg that you see.

Reading this forum I see that the pavement neurosis is still alive and well as is the problem of drivers who, even if you make eye contact, still do not see you.

In the years when I used to commute into work my morning ride was an idyllic trip along the sea wall from Hoylake to Wallasey, obviously no traffic of any kind, although there was (inevitably?) a 'No Cycling' notice. Then on to the Mersey Ferry to Liverpool. A bike ride and a boat ride. What a way to go to work. But in the evenings after the ferry I came back through Birkenhead along normal traffic laden roads. As they crawled along nose to tailbetween sets of lights some drivers would get upset as I, on my bicyle, went past them as they sat in their expensive 0 to 60 in 5 seconds, top speed of 145 mph machines. So you get used to the little ploys. As we come up to another set of lights they move over towards the kerb to try and stop you gettingpast, (although there is always the kerb to nip on to and so past jus the same) or, how about the one where he switches on the screen washers just as you come alongside...it's true. My favourite response: slap hard on the roof of the car with the flat of the hand. No damage done but what a shock that loud bang gives to the driver inside. A case for 'Sorry mate I didn't see you'?

There's an associated thing, looking down on cyclists. This is common in third world and developing countries, and it's an attitude now brought here by immigration from those areas. Cycling is seen as for the poor, and in some Asian cultures, that makes cyclists a sort of lower caste. For example, I'm friendly with a nearby man from the Indian sub continent and we often greet each other and chat when we meet while walking, but when I'm on a bike, he deliberately avoids eye contact and won't speak!

 

The reason I raise this is that I wonder if there is any connection with our Empire background. Cycling has been around for 150 years or so, while the British Empire only finally folded less than 60 years ago, and the connection has been maintained via the Commonwealth. Therefore I wonder if it's an attitude with origins in it being brought here by the colonial administration, since they were often the middle and upper classes, the same people to adopt the earliest bicycles in this country and the first to abandon using them as their popularity spread.

 

Just a thought, but it's a small step from regarding a group as socially lower to active dislike of them.

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Personally I don't think the British are anti bicycle. In my experience if you ride a bicycle in this country you are treated pretty well. Okay so some motorists don't give cyclists enough room, but much of the time this is just through ignorance or stupidity and not anti cycling.

 

Also I think cyclists should take some responsibility, in many cases they act as bad if not worse than drivers of other vehicles. Many also seem to have a chip on their shoulder, believing everyone else is against the poor innocent cyclist.

 

Martin

Personally I don't think the British are anti bicycle. In my experience if you ride a bicycle in this country you are treated pretty well. Okay so some motorists don't give cyclists enough room, but much of the time this is just through ignorance or stupidity and not anti cycling.

 

Also I think cyclists should take some responsibility, in many cases they act as bad if not worse than drivers of other vehicles. Many also seem to have a chip on their shoulder, believing everyone else is against the poor innocent cyclist.

 

Martin

 

I find a real mix of opposite attitudes in my area amongst drivers, many very helpful to cyclists in fact, but another group very obviously aggressively anti, and of course the average lot in the middle.

 

I certainly agree about the aggressive attitude of some cyclists, not many of them round here, but the few like that are real nasty bits of work, abusing drivers, pedestrians and anyone else they think is in the way. I dislike them the most because of the bad name they give us.

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It's a minority of cyclists in my experience who get drivers agitated. Running red lights dangerously, ignoring one-way streets or cutting traffic gaps so fine you have to slam the brakes on to avoid knocking them off- plus a measure of self-righteous greener than you aggression. Couriers being the biggest offenders but not the worst- at least they 're experienced.

 

I commute daily by car through London. I have no ill will to most cyclists and don't see much of the antagonism from car drivers that some cyclists seem to experience.

 

I commute daily by car through London. I have no ill will to most cyclists and don't see much of the antagonism from car drivers that some cyclists seem to experience.

 

I never remember seeing it in my commuting days into London either, but see many of the things davidw complains of in my suburban area. The deliberate swerving left when a cyclist is spotted in order to block the cycle lane is very common, particularly in the areas where long traffic queues develop. It seems they just resent someone able to go to the front in their own lane. General abuse from a car or van driver or passenger passing by being yelled out at a cyclist who is just cycling along the edge of the road and not in the way of anyone also happens very often, and not just from young drivers.

 

I even suffered an extreme case of malicious driving from a London bus driver. He unaccountably pulled in behind and followed me some distance at 15 mph, then when approaching a bus stop with someone waiting he suddenly overtook and swerved into the bus stop front of me, stopping quickly at an angle, forcing me to brake hard and swerve right round to the other side of the road to get past. Leaving the bus stop, he quickly caught up, followed, and then repeated the performance at the next bus stop. When he was clearly intending it at the third stop, I watched him in the mirror and swerved out in time to completely block him from overtaking, and that was the last of the behaviour on that trip. That was as clear a case of anti-cycling aggression as I've ever come across.

 

But on the other hand, there's many drivers who really go out of their way to help cyclists, much more so than I remember from the commuting days, so it seems suburbia may bring out greater extremes of behaviour among those who live and work there.

 

Perhaps a touch of Royston Vasey.

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Edited March 15, 200818 yr by flecc

I even suffered an extreme case of malicious driving from a London bus driver. He unaccountably pulled in behind and followed me some distance at 15 mph, then when approaching a bus stop with someone waiting he suddenly overtook and swerved into the bus stop front of me, stopping quickly at an angle, forcing me to brake hard and swerve right round to the other side of the road to get past. Leaving the bus stop, he quickly caught up, followed, and then repeated the performance at the next bus stop. When he was clearly intending it at the third stop, I watched him in the mirror and swerved out in time to completely block him from overtaking, and that was the last of the behaviour on that trip. That was as clear a case of anti-cycling aggression as I've ever come across.

 

 

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Yes this sort of thing does happen with buses and in this case it does seem malicious. Once when this happened to me, his timing wasn't brilliant and I refused to stop ending up at the bus stop with him along side. It proved very difficult to load passengers with a cyclist in the way remonstrating with the driver. I think the bendy buses in London are the worst as the drivers seem to have no idea how long their vehicle is. I have been cut up by a few times and am not afraid to remind them of the man who was dragged 9 minutes under the wheels of a bendy bus before dying - they should remember this every time they sit behind the wheel. As long as you remain calm and cool I see no problem in talking to the drivers about their driving and in the end you do have the right to complain to the bus company about them.

I also don't feel that car users are the problem, you may get 1 or 2 that annoy you but thats not bad going seeing how many cars are actually on the road.

 

I find a lot cyclists and pedestrians more a pain and rude. Especially if I use a cycle path thats adjoining a walkway, one time actually being pushed off the cycle path into the road by some big six foot beefy docker and another being sworn at and told to get on the road. Yes both times I picked myself up and asked them if the picture of a bike on the ground wasnt a bit of a giveaway!!

 

On the road I just think cyclists need to be more aware and on junctions like Flecc said in his previous post just take the time to anticipate which car is going to try and dart out, you can usually spot them

I did nearly have an accident not too long ago, when I come off the cycle track I cross a dual carriageway - my right eye always looks forward and my left eye has a habit of keeping track of the traffic on the left I could see a certain car was not going to stop at the lights so I slammed my breaks on as did he he missed me by millimeters

Do I love my left eye...sure do as this would have definitely been a diffo outcome.

 

Lycra clad brigade - why the hell do they go through red lights? at like 30mph do they think they are riding a tank? Even if they hit me on my little UM55 they are going to come off worse..total madness!

 

Riding on pavements when there is no cycle track - if I need to do this I always give pedestrians the right of way, if I need to stop to let them past I stop its not their problem i'm on the pavement.

I can understand them getting annoyed at people zooming past them just like when we get passed by a car who's too close.

 

So I think its just a bit of consideration on all parties, we and they always remember the bad experiences and the nutters.

 

Right thats my rant and I think i've covered many posts

 

Maz

Fascinating thread.

 

As I hinted in my intro post, I have spent more hours on horseback than I care to count, much of it thankfully over open country, but a lot on both rural and urban roads. Apart from the London commuting/bendy buses bits, substitute 'horse' for 'bike' and most of the comments here would be equally valid - especially the class-connotated ones. Prejudice has some very strange and extreme manifestations. So, since you cannot do much about it, maybe it's best to remain constantly aware of just how irrational some people can be, and be ready to cope optimally with those extremes without putting yourself (or anyone) else in danger.

 

I think I may make quite a good cyclist actually:-))

There's an associated thing, looking down on cyclists. This is common in third world and developing countries, and it's an attitude now brought here by immigration from those areas. Cycling is seen as for the poor, and in some Asian cultures, that makes cyclists a sort of lower caste.

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I wonder if these Asian cultures will think the same way in a few years time when billions of obese people are trying to drive these large fancy cars they all aspire to, on congested roads.

Maybe they will look back at these times and think the humble bicycle was not such a bad machine after all;) .

 

Martin

I wonder if these Asian cultures will think the same way in a few years time when billions of obese people are trying to drive these large fancy cars they all aspire to, on congested roads.

Maybe they will look back at these times and think the humble bicycle was not such are bad machine after all;) .

 

Martin

 

I think we could be at the early stages of this already Martin. The health record of Asian peoples here is already causing concern, heart attacks, kidney disease, high incidence of diabetes etc are too prevalent in those populations already.

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As for bus drivers,since the highway code has been changed to allow bus drivers to pull out, i have had several experiences when driving my car,when with the bus stopped to pick up passengers,i have indicated to overtake and when a quarter of the way past they start pulling out on you, some bus drivers seem to think once they have indicated they dont even have to check in their mirror for somebody overtaking ,in a car you can accelerate out of danger or stop, on a bike this would leave you in a horrible situation stuck in the middle of the road.

This is an interesting thread.

 

I'd first say that I find the overwhelming majority of motorists and pedestrians courteous and pleasant people to share the roads with. The odd one is unpleasant (such as the driver who blew his horn a few times as he overtook me while I was cycling down the road to the supermarket last night; all I can think I was doing to offend him was being on the road)

 

However I think there is a less positive attitude to cycling in the UK than in other European countries. I have always put it down to the belief that penetration of car ownership was higher in Britain when we were building our infrastructure after the war. Hence providing for bicycles was not seen to be a transport priority, so they were left out. Other countries which were less affluent at that time relied on bicycles more, so re-built their towns and cities with them in mind. That's my theory - don't know if it is right or not!

 

Frank

 

However I think there is a less positive attitude to cycling in the UK than in other European countries. I have always put it down to the belief that penetration of car ownership was higher in Britain when we were building our infrastructure after the war. Hence providing for bicycles was not seen to be a transport priority, so they were left out. Other countries which were less affluent at that time relied on bicycles more, so re-built their towns and cities with them in mind. That's my theory - don't know if it is right or not!

 

Frank

 

I think territory is a very important factor. On the continent, the low countries, the German plains and much of France are flat or fairly flat, making cycling an easy choice for low cost transport. The other factors, in line with what your suggest Frank, is that they have more space in which to build cycle facilities. With their towns and cities often more devastated by WW2, the opportunity for that was there too, something denied to us with our more patchy war damage.

 

Much of Britain is hilly or very hilly, but where we have quite flat areas, cycling has sometimes taken a strong hold, Cambridge and York being notable examples.

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I think territory is a very important factor. On the continent, the low countries, the German plains and much of France are flat or fairly flat, making cycling an easy choice for low cost transport. The other factors, in line with what your suggest Frank, is that they have more space in which to build cycle facilities. With their towns and cities often more devastated by WW2, the opportunity for that was there too, something denied to us with our more patchy war damage.

 

Much of Britain is hilly or very hilly, but where we have quite flat areas, cycling has sometimes taken a strong hold, Cambridge and York being notable examples.

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Coventry got mullered by fritz in WW2 and our bike lanes are crap:)

 

still, we do have 2 cathedrals

Coventry got mullered by fritz in WW2 and our bike lanes are crap:)

 

still, we do have 2 cathedrals

 

Taking up Frank's point, it was very much motor industry territory around there, and car workers get heavily discounted cars, so it wasn't really a prime location in those respects. Now much of the motor industry has disappeared it's a bit late of course, the space occupied by motor biased roads and lots of cathedrals.

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A bit of courtesy both ways helps. If I'm aware that a driver has held back from me through a series of bends then I'll give them a wave of thanks when they do go past, and usually I'll get a friendly wave back (I think they mean they have only been held up for two minutes ). Seriously, if people think their courtesy has been appreciated they will be keen to do it again, if not then they may not bother.

A bit of courtesy both ways helps. If I'm aware that a driver has held back from me through a series of bends then I'll give them a wave of thanks when they do go past, and usually I'll get a friendly wave back (I think they mean they have only been held up for two minutes ). Seriously, if people think their courtesy has been appreciated they will be keen to do it again, if not then they may not bother.

 

 

I agree with you, I always give drivers a wave if they have held back and overtaken safely. Never had a wave to me when a driver/pasenger in the car and I think it is a very rare occurance.

On our narrow high hedged lanes, when I've held up a car driver I always wave the driver through the moment I've rounded a bend enough to see the path is clear for them to overtake.

 

It only saves them a second or so, but I frequently get the lights or hazards flashed as a thanks after they've passed.

 

When I know there's a series of blind bends as I'm approaching the first, I'll slow right down or even stop to let a car that's coming up behind go through first.

 

I've long been convinced that if more cyclists did this sort of thing, most car drivers would be more considerate in return.

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Brits And Bikes

 

Well said, Flecc. It's called 'give and take' and that's all it takes

David

Edited April 4, 200818 yr by davidw

I had a very bad day today.

 

It started just a few minutes from home with a bendy bus forcing me into the kerb and off my bike. I was in one of those daft dotted line cycle strips of green tarmac along the side of the road. He just moved across into my space, ironically enough because another bendy bus was coming the other way, and even this main road was not wide enough for two dinosaurs to pass. I gave him a couple of blasts with my Airzound, but he didn't change his course. He could have stopped and let me go, as there was a red light a hundred yards ahead and I re-mounted and overtook him there.

 

Then I had an aggressive taxi driver. I pass, or am passed by, probably a couple of hundred taxi drivers a day with no problems. I also use taxis a lot to get to meetings when at work. I think the overwhelming majority are good drivers - better than average as they are professional drivers and they know where they are going. But when you get a bad one it is a pain. This chap squeezed past me, coming way too close, going round Trafalgar Square. He then stopped at the lights and I went to the front. After the lights changed he then overtook me 100 yards down the road, coming really close and blowing his horn. He stopped at the next lights so I decided I would point out that once could be a mistake but twice was not acceptable - so we had a bit of a debate in which he made it clear that he believes that I ought to ride in the gutter and that he, as the faster form of transport has automatic right of way. He didn't twig that, if he was faster, I kept being in front of him.

 

The worst bit, however, was coming home tonight. I was on a cycle and pedestrian path near Buckingham Palace, going at a moderate speed as there were pedestrians around, enjoying the sunny evening. A young boy ran right in front of me. I braked hard, shouted 'Look out!', didn't even have time to blow my horn - and he got a sharp bash on the head from my brake lever - enough to knock him off his feet. I stopped and he was ok - but quite a few tears. His parents were there, so there was nothing I could do but apologise. I never liked the mixed use paths and like them less now. I'll just have to go even more slowly when there are pedestrians around, especially children.

 

People talk about troubles in threes and it was like that today. All three of these were worse than any other incidents I have had cycling in London in the last year.

 

I hope everyone else had a better day.

 

Frank

Edited April 4, 200818 yr by frank9755

Funny how these things happen all on the same day. I had a similar experience last year when I had the same sort of driver force me off the road with the words "you have no rights as you don't pay road tax". Then in town somebody literally ran into my leg and refused to reverse, trapping me against the traffic island and in an 'advanced stop line' of all places!

 

Keep at it I haven't had a similar level of agression this year. Main problem now seems to be with the influx of "summer bikers" with a distinct lack of road sense, perhaps they are a bit rusty and will improve.

 

Trafalgar square is a nightmare to get round and I am always in the wrong lane. I do it every day so perhaps I might bump into you. Look out for a Torq next time you are out and about.

Edited April 4, 200818 yr by HarryB

My sympathy Frank, that was a really bad day.

 

I dislike Friday for riding more than any other weekday, especially in the afternoon. Maybe it's the end of week frayed nerves, or drivers looking forward too much to the weekend, but the driving then is generally the most aggressive of the week I find.

 

Weekends aren't too good either, but more because of dozy driving then.

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Commuting delights

 

Some years ago I used to work in central London and live in rural Essex, a ride of some 20 miles each way. I thought that forum members might like to hear of some of the events that befell me during my 3 years cycling this route to and from work.

 

Missiles thrown at me from passing cars:

 

Half house brick (missed)

Half eaten pack of fish and chips (hit)

Fireworks (lit)

Beer cans (2 hits)

Beer bottles (hit to helmet)

 

Missiles thrown by pedestrians

 

Snowballs with rocks inside them (hit)

Litter bin (miss)

Old training shoe (hit)

Water bombs (containing fluid other than water)

Various types of fruit (hit and miss)

 

Other joys

 

Pushed off bike by yobs in car

Dog set on me by group of tramps (bit my leg)

Lunatic in Mercedes drove into me dislocating one of my fingers

The usual aggressive overtaking, cutting in front, to at once turn left

 

I did not/do not offer rudeness or aggression to car drivers or any one else when I cycle; I think the kind of behaviour listed above stems from some peoples perception of the bike and rider as an easy, vulnerable target. Almost a hunter/prey reflex.

Perhaps it was the fact that I used to travel at a fair pace (18mph average for the 20 miles) that used to wind people up?

 

Or perhaps it was that special blend of East End/ urban Essex that was to blame?

 

None of this diminished my desire to cycle because of the alternative; a rail journey which was quite simply a scene from Dante's 'Inferno'. I travelled by rail twice, that was enough.

Hundreds of miserable people squashed into a railway carriages sneezing, coughing and farting over each other for the duration of their trip, and paying for the pleasure.

Thanks everyone for putting my problems in context. I feel I've been lucky to escape with my moderate bad luck! There's clearly worse out there.

 

I was doing a bit of research last night and discovered that in Spain it is illegal for a motor vehicle to come within 1.5 metres when passing a bike. What a good law!

 

Trafalgar square is a nightmare to get round and I am always in the wrong lane. I do it every day so perhaps I might bump into you. Look out for a Torq next time you are out and about.

 

I shall keep my eyes open for a Torq - and give you a blast on my Airzound if I spot you!

 

Frank