The bike range question

[celedep]

If I was to get a bike for my commute (fair weather only) I would need 16 miles each way. Is there anybody that does this distance day in day out and what bike are you using. I am a bit lost with all the battery power ratings etc... So wondering if there was available a sub £1000 bike that would do what I need. I can charge it at work, so no need to do both ways on one charge. A few hills but nothing shocking.
I am also looking at the cycle to work scheme and have asked my company if we can set it up, does it really chop the cost of the bike enough to make it all worth while?
Thanks in advance.

 

[funkylyn]

I would imagine virtually ALL bikes would do 16 miles if you can re charge at work you will have no problem there are lots of bikes to choose from under £1000.
I am presuming you will be pedalling as well and not using only throttle
Cant advise you regarding the ctw scheme but someone will surely be along who can
Good luck......try lots before you buy
Lynda

 

[celedep]

Thanks Lynda, i am going to the open day at e-bikesdirect on 18th June in battersea. Should be good to trysome more bikes there. I went to Presteigne so have tried a few already.
I would also be pedalling so should help with my fitness levels too, thats the plan. they are quite low right now so the bike will have to do a fair bit to start with haha

 

[flecc]

In that price bracket it generally has to be hub motor bikes. Those with 10 Ah batteries will just about give you the 32 miles if you help them enough, but this is only when the battery is new. As batteries age, they continuously lose capacity and range and can be down to two thirds as they near two years old.

Therefore you really need to look for a 36 volt 14 Ah or more battery, or charge at work as well.

Juicy Bikes on this link have a 14 Ah model and a 16 Ah coming soon, both crossbar types. Their step through if that is preferred only has 10 Ah unfortunately, but at well under £800 you could afford a second battery to give 20 Ah total and loads of range.

 

[morphix]

If I was to get a bike for my commute (fair weather only) I would need 16 miles each way. Is there anybody that does this distance day in day out and what bike are you using. I am a bit lost with all the battery power ratings etc... So wondering if there was available a sub £1000 bike that would do what I need. I can charge it at work, so no need to do both ways on one charge. A few hills but nothing shocking.
I am also looking at the cycle to work scheme and have asked my company if we can set it up, does it really chop the cost of the bike enough to make it all worth while?
Thanks in advance.

I agree with Lynda, most cheap bikes should be able to do that distance with some assistance from you pedalling.

I can do 18 miles round trip on my tiny 5Ah battery with light pedalling on pedal assist highest power level (this comes down to about 8 miles using throttle only). So If I used both my 5Ah batteries (providing a normal 10Ah of power) I could clear 32 miles no problem without needing to charge.

If you can charge at work it would be piece of cake with standard sized 10Ah battery or even a smaller 8Ah battery. But if you can't charge at work, maybe look at 10Ah, as a minimum and perhaps 14Ah for a bit of reserve power.

Remember though if you don't pedal the distance will fall dramatically, by anything from half to a third so get the biggest battery you can if you cant pedal.

 

[shep]

My Tonaro Bighit which is around the 1000 pound mark will do 50 miles on a charge and it is crank drive

 

[allen-uk]

Celedep:

What the other posters have said is true, without doubt, but you MUST factor in your own body data. How heavy are you? How fit/unfit? Any other health problems which will impede your pedalling progress? Will you be using the throttle much, or not at all?

I ask because in my case (answering heavy and unfit to the above) I only get about 24 miles out of my Wisper, whereas other Wisper owners on the forum claim to get 35 to 40, which is easily achievable if you're about 10 stone and fairly fit!

So, spill the beans and we'll give you the good/bad news...


A.

 

[celedep]

Well Im 12.5 stone 5'10" tall and I would nit say fit, not totally unfit and would be able to ride a good share of the way. Probably only asking the motor to supply some extra torque on the hills. So it sounds tome like I will be ok for the distance. I cant wait to visit the e-bikesdirect open day in a few weeks time.

 

[allen-uk]

Well, celedep, that's a very good start (certainly compared to some of us here!)

Another factor (sorry, but there's always another factor) is the weight and type of bike. From my direct experience of my Wisper, and from reading similar comments from riders of other similar bikes, power-free pedaling is NOT an easy option. If you go for an 'ordinary' bike with a conversion kit, then maybe, but not on a typical 25kg hub-driven ebike. It's not just the weight, but also the way the power-train operates.

But I think you can probably get your desired range by an intelligent use of the power - no throttle, not much use of the higher end of the available power, and so on.

Just a tip on the open day: as well as revelling in the way the bike powers you along, also turn the power OFF and see what pedalling is like without the battery.


Allen.

 

[RoadieRoger]

My Batribike Folder will do 33 miles on it`s 26V 8Ah combination using medium assist , so you need 10Ah as a minimum to avoid `borrowing` the firm`s electricity .

 

[banbury frank]

Hi

My tip on getting longer range is if you leave the battery at home the weight saving will allow you to have a rang over 1,000 mills +++


Sorry for the poor JOKE

There is NO set range I advise my customers that a mile per Amp hour

So my work is 10 miles away can you charge at work yes 10 AH battery

my work is 15 miles away can you charge at work Yes 15 AH battery

The voltage off the battery is dependent on the weight off the rider

36 volts good for up to 15 stone


48 volt over 15 stone

That is because the volts give you pure GRUNT to get you up hills


we can have speed but all our motors coils are wound for pulling power

and controllers are limited to 15 MPH










Frank

 

[NRG]

Hi

My tip on getting longer range is if you leave the battery at home the weight saving will allow you to have a rang over 1,000 mills +++


Sorry for the poor JOKE

There is NO set range I advise my customers that a mile per Amp hour

So my work is 10 miles away can you charge at work yes 10 AH battery

my work is 15 miles away can you charge at work Yes 15 AH battery

The voltage off the battery is dependent on the weight off the rider

36 volts good for up to 15 stone


48 volt over 15 stone

That is because the volts give you pure GRUNT to get you up hills


we can have speed but all our motors coils are wound for pulling power

and controllers are limited to 15 MPH










Frank

Classic, thanks Frank

 

[Wisper Bikes]

We have recently had a report form an Alpino rider who has achieved 80 miles from a charge with Volts left in the tank, where as I only get about 30. Ranges are so difficult to pin down and so much depend on so many variables!

All the best

David

 

[banbury frank]

Hi David

Perhaps he left his battery at home

Sorry about the humor

Frank

 

[flecc]

The variation in individual peoples ranges is huge, as the following shows:

Tonaro e-bikes, suppliers claim, 19 to 25 miles. One poster states 50 miles achieved, double the highest supplier claimed figure. In my experience of e-bikes with the high power of the Tonaro models, the suppliers modesty is wise since that is all most will achieve from it's 37 volt 10 Ah battery.

Allen-UK's post above also illustrate the big discrepancies, he getting 24 miles and stating others get 35-40 miles from the Wisper's 37 volt 14 ah battery. I know that some others have reported 45 and up to 60 miles from that same battery.

When giving advice on range, I believe it's important to give the conservative range and not place emphasis on the exceptional ranges that a small minority get.

 

[shep]

Flecc

I agree, i am regularly getting 45 to 50 miles from the Tonaro battery which is 36v and 10ah so 360 Watt hours, and that is on high assistance.

So far i am a bit dissapointed by the 18ah battery in the Kalkhoff Agattu as i am again getting about 50 miles on standard assistance. Now this battery is 18ah x 26V so 468 watt hours. If you went to low assistance you would get further, but i suggest you would in that case be better off with a good standard road bike than an electric bike, as the asistance provided would be so small.

I guess that what i am dissapointed about is Kalkhoffs claims on the battery of 140km. Maybe on the flat with a hurricane tailwind and Lance Armstrong peddaling in low assist, but for us more normal people sorry Kalkhoff I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS CLAIM.

140km is about 87 miles, assuming 10% always left in the battery, means 421w/h used or 4.84 W/h per mile !!!!!!!!!! assuming 12.5 mph average speed then the motor would be providing a measly 60 watts of assistance to achieve the stated 87 miles. I notice in the extraenergy tests the Panasonic bikes with the 10ah battery's fitted were all getting range in the region of 50Km or about 31 miles. As my battery is 1.8 times bigger, i should be getting in the region of 54 miles, so my range figures of about 50 miles would tend to concur. BUT WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR THE 87 MILES CLAIMED

I have been very pleased with the Tonaro range and less so with the Kalkhoff, the Kalkhoff has had much less use, so lets wait and see if this battery beds in yet for a greater range

 

[lemmy]

After 18 months my Panasonic motor still gives me 26 miles on a 10ah battery with power assistance on all the time. I'm pretty average weight at 73k and 5'8" and my trips are stop and start in London with hills to 70 metres on the way.

It's good to be conservative as Frank says but there's no way I could get my range down to 10 miles with my 10ah battery outside of tackling the Grand St Bernard Pass.

 

[flecc]

Shep

I agree with your Kalkhoff experiences. With the 10 Ah battery I got around 35 miles with it new and suggested in my review that 30 to 35 miles was realistic. When choosing a route for better economy and riding whenever the going was easy without power, I was able to extend it enough to indicate 50 miles was possible, but of course i wasn't making full use of the bike by any means. I also found the low power Eco mode wasn't worth using, not giving anything worthwhile.

There are no miracles with electric motors, their technology is widely and fully understood and no one make or model can alter that. Ranges will always reflect the balance of power used against distance for a given rider input, and what holds good for one make will also for another to a very great degree.

It's the rider and how well an e-bike suits them which makes the huge variation in reported ranges, not the e-bike, and there are many other examples like the ones I illustrated above.

I'm confident for example that if I bought a Tonaro, my range would be more like that the supplier states than your long range, and obviously that's due to you being a much stronger rider than me at almost 75.

Some years ago we had an interesting thread on the range of the popular and very powerful eZee Torq 1, also with a 36 volt 10 Ah battery. Most including me reported 15 miles, one member at 18 miles and one at 20 miles. David Henshaw of A to B magazine, a powerful rider who had won the first Presteigne race that year did a review on that Torq and achieved 22 miles range. All very consistent, but later, David's brother Peter, also a strong rider, achieved 45 miles riding in the Somerset levels area, though he admitted he had not been using power all the time. So once again we had this 2 to 1 or more discrepancy, showing how impossible range is to forecast for anyone else.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

There is another variable that does not get much attention.

I have just finished negotiation with our battery supplier with respect to warranties. Wisper gets a 30 month warranty, with a 20% maximum drop in voltage after 2 years so we can confidently pass on a 24 month warranty with a maximum 30% (about to be revised to 25%) drop. To offer this warranty we must work within the parameters set by our battery manufacturer with respect to the voltage at which the controller cuts power to the motor. On our bikes this is set to 32V, by setting the cut out at 32V we can be confident that there will be very little cell deterioration. The lower the cut out voltage, the shorter the battery life but the longer the range.

There is a second reason we use a high cut off voltage, most Lithium batteries will continue to discharge even with the battery turned off at up to 1.5V per month, some much higher. Once a battery has discharged to around 28V the danger of cell damage becomes very real. When a whole battery has reading of 28V it is possible that one cell of the ten (lithium polymer) maybe already reaching the critical 2.4V (even with a decent BMS) at which point the whole battery can be rendered useless and even if it can be restored it will have a massively reduce range. It is for this reason we leave 4V between the cut off at 32V and the critical 28V, if a bike is left with a flat battery for up to 10 weeks the chances of serious damage is minimised.

The terms of our warranty state that a bike should never be left for more than a week with a fully discharged battery and should be recharged to 39V during storage every six weeks. I realise this is a bit "belt and braces" but battery care is paramount if riders want to keep their battery in rude health! Due to this cautious approach, we have many six year old Wispers on the road with powerful original batteries. As battery replacement is the highest cost in running an electric bike, we feel it is our duty to customers to help them keep their batteries for long as possible.

Battery technology is progressing at a serious rate, and our latest versions according the manufacturer can be left for six months and possibly a year on a single 39V charge, as long as the battery is turned off and taken out of the bike. We currently have a few on test to check their claims, however we still recommend caution!

All the best

David

 

[celedep]

A very interesting thread this has become, it also raises the question of battery type. Whilst a lot of users here state they have Lithium Ion battery power some of the late bikes are now running LiFePo4 battery power. On paper it appears that the new LifePo4 is better for longevity and the bikes I have been considering mostly have these new batteries. Does anybody have some long term use of the LiFePo4 type and are they really a better choice?
Having read a lot of posts about batteries i will be interested to try some bikes with both, its not possible to get a complete picture though because testing a bike is generally a ride around the block. Not a 30 mile battery flattening marathon!