The beginning of the end.... already!

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I know some of you think we "bang on" about the use of illegally powerful eBikes, but we do have good reason for it... and its posts like this in the mainstream cycling media we're trying to avoid.

Because like it or not, most people don't know the difference between 250w legal pedelecs and 250+w de-restricted bikes that are essentially mopeds (in the eyes of the law - which I know many of you disagree with) - so everyone gets tarred with the same brush - and before we know it eBikes as a whole category are banned from anywhere fun before the industry in this country has really got started.

http://dirtmountainbike.com/news/beginning-end-mtb-e-bikes-discussion.html#Ak7Jo6xbcJuMH02w.97

Dirt Magazine have over 1/2 a million mtb followers on their facebook, so its getting some discussion on there.

https://www.facebook.com/DirtMountainbike?fref=ts

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

..... and yes we know its a sensationalist bit of journalism designed to stimulate a debate on a Friday afternoon.

They could have caused the same discussion by saying they are the best thing and the future, but instead they chose to go with the negative, and this depresses us, and should worry anyone with an interest in growing the industry in the UK.

 

[SRS]

At the end of the day, the whole of the UK is covered in bridle paths and natures very own trails. Miles and miles of them.

People will get one each others nerves if they all ride in the same spot, electric or otherwise.

Do away with the trails and everyone will find their own and most likely empty natural trails. Thereby eliminating the need to moan about others.

 

[Wander]

I know some of you think we "bang on" .....

Nice to be in agreement with you Col .

 

[oigoi]

Pretty sure most ktm bikes will be generating a power output greater than 250w when climbing a hill..........

 

[SRS]

Seen it all before.

I used to whitewater kayak. Many access to water disputes with landowners. Fights with fisherman etc. All totally unnecessary.

Swapped to kayak surfing for a couples of decades. I lost count of the abuse received from board surfer who thought they owned the beaches.

At the end of the day, why not encourage all activities and work together not against each other.

If anything is going to destroy the e-bike industry it is all the negative BS that we are constantly bombarded with and not the bikes themselves.

 

[Wicky]

http://dirtmountainbike.com looks American with an entirely different set of laws to UK / EU based upon 750 watts maximum - Maximum speed of less than 20-MPH on the motor only, on level ground, with a 170 pound rider.

https://www.electricbike.com/electric-bike-law/

 

[flecc]

That's only Federal law though as the article points out. Those states with variant law generally allow a bit more power and sometimes more speed, while some have other restrictions that we don't have in the UK, even requiring driving licence and/or insurance in some cases.

In general though, overpowered e-bikes in the USA are often very high powered and virtually e-motorbikes, so I can understand the protests against them there when that is the case.
.

 

[Gringo]

I agree entirely with the OP
As a responsible rider, only riding where bikes are allowed at a speed that dosent make me stand out.
I get pe'd off when pilchards ride where they shouldn't in a totally irresponsible manner, thats all bikes not just pedelecs.
As it's almost impossible to curb the antics of " ordinary bikes" numptys on asited bikes make pedelecs an easy target.

Here's my gripe for the night.
I've just driven home (half past midnight) and spotted the back of a hi-viz rider with many lights, now he was on the pavement looking to his right, as I got closer and closer I finaly made out he was chatting to another cyclist who was riding next to him wearing camouflage gear & no lights,
That's right, you guest it, the unlit plonker was the one riding on the road !!!
Go figure that one out &'stay saine.

 

[RobF]

Good ol' Col desperately trying to flog 'legal' KTMs as always.

He needs to be careful being so keen to help those who would see unrestricted bikes banned.

Come the glorious day, the distinction might be forgotten and all ebikes go the journey.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas - unless they are not savvy enough to realise they are doing it.

 

[flecc]

E-bikes are completely safe, no matter what anyone says against them. The EU doesn't have these problems with overpowered bikes, their main cycling countries being largely contented with the pedelec law as it stands. So since it's the EU that makes Europe wide transport policy and law, it will remain accommodating pedelecs, plus the S class where governments permit that.

Pedelecs are not motor vehicles in law, they are bicycles, so it follows that any attempt to discriminate between pedelecs and unpowered bicycles can be successfully opposed at law.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Good ol' Col desperately trying to flog 'legal' KTMs as always.

He needs to be careful being so keen to help those who would see unrestricted bikes banned.

Come the glorious day, the distinction might be forgotten and all ebikes go the journey.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas - unless they are not savvy enough to realise they are doing it.

You've missed the point of my post Rob.

I'm not keen to see unrestricted bikes banned per sa.... I'm actually keen to see the law revised so we can sell them and you guys use them legally.

My problem is that there are currently lots of people that are using bikes that actually are currently banned (ie illegal) from use in the public arena already, and yet they choose to ignore the law because they believe it to be wrong, or worse don't understand it - and this I think has a negative impact on many peoples views on eBikes. Importantly if there is an incident at a trail centre, the doors will close for everyone, not just those that flout the current law.

But yes.... I don't think unrestricted bikes have a place at a multi use dedicated trail centres. Which is why I think the German law is perfect. sClass bikes can be used, in certain places.

 

[shemozzle999]

Future specific ebike data collection will be available in a couple of years time it will show the degree of how safe ebikes are.

Here are the latest thoughts on the subject:

www.udv.de/download/file/fid/8461

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Very interesting read, and the conclusion is one that pretty much everyone in the industry and decision makers across Europe seems to be in agreement with.

CONCLUSION:

"It therefore seems justifiable to legally classify pedelecs as bicycles and s-pedelecs as mo-peds. Because of their higher average speed, s-pedelecs should continue to be restricted to using the roads rather than the cycling infrastructure. Their users should be obliged to have a vehicle registration and to wear a helmet. It is certainly possible that, although s-pedelec users are involved in similar numbers of accidents to pedelec users and cyclists, their injuries are more serious due to their higher speeds. This is suggested by initial results from Switzerland."

 

[Artstu]

Interesting that S-class bikes have less conflicts with other road users than ordinary bikes and pedelecs in all but one case. That's my experience too, and why I ride a low powered variation of one.

 

[LEBC Tom]

Interesting that S-class bikes have less conflicts with other road users than ordinary bikes and pedelecs in all but one case. That's my experience too, and why I ride a low powered variation of one.

View attachment 10053

But thats because the S Class pedelec has only 2% share of pedelec sales, there are only a very small number on the road in Germany.

The majority of electric bicycles in Germany are pedelecs, which have a market share of about
98%. Only 2% to 3% of electric bicycles are s-pedelecs or e-bikes with power on demand.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

and - as we all know you can make stats / graphs show anything

for instance in 2012, there were 230 deaths on the roads in the UK due to drunk driving... which is only 19% of all road fatilities... so you could easily make a graph like the one above that shows its safer to be drunk than sober.

 

[Artstu]

But thats because the S Class pedelec has only 2% share of pedelec sales, there are only a very small number on the road in Germany.

That's all well and good, but has no relevance to the incident graph in this 4 week trial,which shows individual percentages of incidents per group.

The survey also highlights what some of us already know. Fast e-bikes are used to replace car journeys. If anyone was serious about reducing congestion and car use, they should be making these bikes legal as soon as possible.

 

[Artstu]

and - as we all know you can make stats / graphs show anything

for instance in 2012, there were 230 deaths on the roads in the UK due to drunk driving... which is only 19% of all road fatilities... so you could easily make a graph like the one above that shows its safer to be drunk than sober.

Now that's just being silly.

 

[Wander]

You've missed the point of my post Rob.

I don't think Rob has missed the point at all.

Col you've taken an article about e-bikes generally, in another country, not even in Europe & put your own twist on it just to bang your old drum again.