Thank you forum! & a few thoughts about buying an e-bike.

[KMG440]

I am very grateful for the advice & comments of forum members (50Cycles - misleading advertising) It was very useful to hear all points of view & I was particularly grateful for the detailed legal analysis provided by several forum experts. I am pleased to say that 50Cycles did finally agree to honour their guarantee and have refunded the full amount which I paid for the Kalkoff Tasman.

50 Cycles no longer offer a 'no quibble' guarantee. My advice to anyone contemplating purchase of an
e-bike: - be very cautious when buying at a distance. Even if you visit the showrooms & do some test rides, this doesn't show you how the bike will perform on your home territory or during a longer trip. If the bike you receive is faulty, you are unlikely to find this out until you have taken it for a ride, so check with the trader whether they will allow returns once the bike has been used. Sending a bike back by courier can be a lot of hassle & you will be without it for a week or more. In the light of my experience with 50 cycles, I will be asking detailed questions about the after-sales service before making another purchase.

I am now without a bike - and would be pleased to receive recommendations. I don't mind investing in quality, as I intend to use the bike as an alternative to the car for shopping and 'functional' trips in hilly terrain, wherever practicable. Our nearest bike shop is 10 miles away and I am not a mechanic, so reliability is paramount, It must be light-weight & have a range of 30 to 40 miles. The Tasman was ideal for my (male) partner but, as a less-powerful cyclist, it did not give me enough assistance on hills. After just one 20 mile ride, I suffered knee-damage from which I have not yet fully-recovered. I have cycled thousands of miles on ordinary bikes without any problems, so this is quite a severe set-back. I am in no hurry to repeat this experience - perhaps I will have to wait a few years for improvements to bike-design?

 

[JohnCade]

I am very grateful for the advice & comments of forum members (50Cycles - misleading advertising) It was very useful to hear all points of view & I was particularly grateful for the detailed legal analysis provided by several forum experts. I am pleased to say that 50Cycles did finally agree to honour their guarantee and have refunded the full amount which I paid for the Kalkoff Tasman.

50 Cycles no longer offer a 'no quibble' guarantee. My advice to anyone contemplating purchase of an
e-bike: - be very cautious when buying at a distance. Even if you visit the showrooms & do some test rides, this doesn't show you how the bike will perform on your home territory or during a longer trip. If the bike you receive is faulty, you are unlikely to find this out until you have taken it for a ride, so check with the trader whether they will allow returns once the bike has been used. Sending a bike back by courier can be a lot of hassle & you will be without it for a week or more. In the light of my experience with 50 cycles, I will be asking detailed questions about the after-sales service before making another purchase.

I am now without a bike - and would be pleased to receive recommendations. I don't mind investing in quality, as I intend to use the bike as an alternative to the car for shopping and 'functional' trips in hilly terrain, wherever practicable. Our nearest bike shop is 10 miles away and I am not a mechanic, so reliability is paramount, It must be light-weight & have a range of 30 to 40 miles. The Tasman was ideal for my (male) partner but, as a less-powerful cyclist, it did not give me enough assistance on hills. After just one 20 mile ride, I suffered knee-damage from which I have not yet fully-recovered. I have cycled thousands of miles on ordinary bikes without any problems, so this is quite a severe set-back. I am in no hurry to repeat this experience - perhaps I will have to wait a few years for improvements to bike-design?

I think dealers would run a mile from you after the way you carried on. It was entirely your own fault if you bought an unsuitable bike after trying it at the dealers. Then to expect them to refund you and take back a used bike because of your error was ridiculous. The bike was clearly not faulty and just had a few creaks which you used as an excuse.

After pressurising them through bad publicity via this forum I should have though you would have had the grace to accept your undeserved victory in silence. Perhaps you’d be better off with a moped?

 

[KMG440]

I think dealers would run a mile from you after the way you carried on. It was entirely your own fault if you bought an unsuitable bike after trying it at the dealers. Then to expect them to refund you and take back a used bike because of your error was ridiculous. The bike was clearly not faulty and just had a few creaks which you used as an excuse.

After pressurising them through bad publicity via this forum I should have though you would have had the grace to accept your undeserved victory in silence. Perhaps you’d be better off with a moped?

Perhaps I didn't make the situation clear - the exact model of bike which the salesman recommended was not available for a test ride and arrived in a sub-standard condition......Thank goodness we live in a country where adverts have to be honest & truthful, and there are sensible laws which protect traders and consumers alike.

 

[Wander]

Thank goodness we live in a country where adverts have to be honest & truthful, and there are sensible laws which protect traders and consumers alike.

Problem is that many consumers aren't honest & truthful though. For every Rogue Trader there are unfortunately a hundred Rogue Consumers who use the law to brow beat honest traders into submission & otherwise take advantage.

 

[RobF]

Service from 50 Cycles has been hit and miss, according to reports on here.

They published an advertisement deemed to be misleading by the body tasked with judging such things.

The OP has done all prospective customers a favour by teaching 50 Cycles a lesson.

 

[trex]

...
After just one 20 mile ride, I suffered knee-damage from which I have not yet fully-recovered. I have cycled thousands of miles on ordinary bikes without any problems, so this is quite a severe set-back. I am in no hurry to repeat this experience - perhaps I will have to wait a few years for improvements to bike-design?

you need a bike with a throttle.

 

[selrahc1992]

I am very grateful for the advice & comments of forum members (50Cycles - misleading advertising) It was very useful to hear all points of view & I was particularly grateful for the detailed legal analysis provided by several forum experts. I am pleased to say that 50Cycles did finally agree to honour their guarantee and have refunded the full amount which I paid for the Kalkoff Tasman.

50 Cycles no longer offer a 'no quibble' guarantee. My advice to anyone contemplating purchase of an
e-bike: - be very cautious when buying at a distance. Even if you visit the showrooms & do some test rides, this doesn't show you how the bike will perform on your home territory or during a longer trip. If the bike you receive is faulty, you are unlikely to find this out until you have taken it for a ride, so check with the trader whether they will allow returns once the bike has been used. Sending a bike back by courier can be a lot of hassle & you will be without it for a week or more. In the light of my experience with 50 cycles, I will be asking detailed questions about the after-sales service before making another purchase.

I am now without a bike - and would be pleased to receive recommendations. I don't mind investing in quality, as I intend to use the bike as an alternative to the car for shopping and 'functional' trips in hilly terrain, wherever practicable. Our nearest bike shop is 10 miles away and I am not a mechanic, so reliability is paramount, It must be light-weight & have a range of 30 to 40 miles. The Tasman was ideal for my (male) partner but, as a less-powerful cyclist, it did not give me enough assistance on hills. After just one 20 mile ride, I suffered knee-damage from which I have not yet fully-recovered. I have cycled thousands of miles on ordinary bikes without any problems, so this is quite a severe set-back. I am in no hurry to repeat this experience - perhaps I will have to wait a few years for improvements to bike-design?

my hunch - but I may be wrong I have limited experience of torque sensored bikes - is that your experience of lack of assistance is because of the tasman having a torque sensor - I have a friend with a tasman and I expe4rince this viz a viz my PAS with its movement sensor (an oxydrive kit). On the other hand, the friend with the tasman has lost more weight and become fitter over a similar period than me for using it. but I found the tasman painfully, painfully slow. anyway - sorry to go on, what I really meant to say was that I think a kit can be very good (especially an easy to fit quality kit) because the rest of the bike (brakes, wheels, tyres) are then all of your own choice and known to you - it's not some unknown stuff. you can start with a bike with perfectly trued wheels, good quality brakes chosen by yourself etc. get a kit and put it on a bike you already have and like.

 

[KMG440]

my hunch - but I may be wrong I have limited experience of torque sensored bikes - is that your experience of lack of assistance is because of the tasman having a torque sensor - I have a friend with a tasman and I expe4rince this viz a viz my PAS with its movement sensor (an oxydrive kit). On the other hand, the friend with the tasman has lost more weight and become fitter over a similar period than me for using it. but I found the tasman painfully, painfully slow. anyway - sorry to go on, what I really meant to say was that I think a kit can be very good (especially an easy to fit quality kit) because the rest of the bike (brakes, wheels, tyres) are then all of your own choice and known to you - it's not some unknown stuff. you can start with a bike with perfectly trued wheels, good quality brakes chosen by yourself etc. get a kit and put it on a bike you already have and like.

Thank you for your advice, we will definitely look at this option.

 

[JohnCade]

Service from 50 Cycles has been hit and miss, according to reports on here.

They published an advertisement deemed to be misleading by the body tasked with judging such things.

The OP has done all prospective customers a favour by teaching 50 Cycles a lesson.

I don’t remember seeing any posts where they have let people down lately. I had a warranty claim for a new £800 battery dealt with very professionally a few months ago. Without going into boring details which have been done to death on the other thread I fail to see what lesson they can learn other than some customers will take the pi*s given half a chance.

 

[RobF]

I don’t remember seeing any posts where they have let people down lately. I had a warranty claim for a new £800 battery dealt with very professionally a few months ago. Without going into boring details which have been done to death on the other thread I fail to see what lesson they can learn other than some customers will take the pi*s given half a chance.

The lesson is don't publish misleading advertisements - unless you are prepared to refund customers who respond to them.

The OP has not taken the wotsit, she has out-manoeuvred the retailer.

Given that 50 Cycles has vast experience in cycle retailing and the OP very likely has only ever bought a handful of bikes, it's a poor effort by 50 Cycles to be done up like a kipper by a rookie.

 

[Wander]

Given that 50 Cycles has vast experience in cycle retailing and the OP very likely has only ever bought a handful of bikes, it's a poor effort by 50 Cycles to be done up like a kipper by a rookie.

OP is hardly a rookie in these sort of matters. I believe she knew exactly what she was doing.

 

[falmouthtony]

my hunch - but I may be wrong I have limited experience of torque sensored bikes - is that your experience of lack of assistance is because of the tasman having a torque sensor - I have a friend with a tasman and I expe4rince this viz a viz my PAS with its movement sensor (an oxydrive kit). On the other hand, the friend with the tasman has lost more weight and become fitter over a similar period than me for using it. but I found the tasman painfully, painfully slow. anyway - sorry to go on, what I really meant to say was that I think a kit can be very good (especially an easy to fit quality kit) because the rest of the bike (brakes, wheels, tyres) are then all of your own choice and known to you - it's not some unknown stuff. you can start with a bike with perfectly trued wheels, good quality brakes chosen by yourself etc. get a kit and put it on a bike you already have and like.

I have a Bosch crank drive mountain bike and a converted touring bike with an Ezee hub motor.
I enjoy them both but they are totally different riding experiences.
The crank drive bike gives me far more of a workout and the response provided proportionate to effort put in is very rewarding.
HOWEVER, if you have major knee problems you unquestionably need a bike with a powerful hub motor, pedal sensor and throttle.

 

[JohnCade]

The lesson is don't publish misleading advertisements - unless you are prepared to refund customers who respond to them.

The OP has not taken the wotsit, she has out-manoeuvred the retailer.

Given that 50 Cycles has vast experience in cycle retailing and the OP very likely has only ever bought a handful of bikes, it's a poor effort by 50 Cycles to be done up like a kipper by a rookie.

They didn’t publish misleading adverts. They put a slogan on a facsimile stamp on a small part of a page which she took advantage of knowing perfectly well that it did not mean what she claimed it did. But as I said I don’t want to go back over over ground already covered in boring detail.

You take her at face value and believe her and I don’t, and that’s basically the difference .

 

[RobF]

They didn’t publish misleading adverts. They put a slogan on a facsimile stamp on a small part of a page which she took advantage of knowing perfectly well that it did not mean what she claimed it did. But as I said I don’t want to go back over over ground already covered in boring detail.

You take her at face value and believe her and I don’t, and that’s basically the difference .

The ASA ruled the advertisement by 50 Cycles to be misleading.

That is what I take at face value.

Seems odd to me that you as a consumer should support the publishing of dodgy adverts, but you are, of course, entitled to your view.

 

[jonathan75]

I have a Bosch crank drive mountain bike and a converted touring bike with an Ezee hub motor.
I enjoy them both but they are totally different riding experiences.
The crank drive bike gives me far more of a workout and the response provided proportionate to effort put in is very rewarding.
HOWEVER, if you have major knee problems you unquestionably need a bike with a powerful hub motor, pedal sensor and throttle.

Seconded. I'd add, a capacious battery -not only for range but because there's also a strong 'virtuous' electrical effect from having a battery with more amp hours available. I'd also say don't be afraid of going for 48v rather than the more familiar 36v - what it gives, I'm told, is precisely more kick/grunt on those hills. I have knee problems and am wondering whether 36v was the wrong decision.

There is another consideration of course which is also it's worth considering ignoring the 250w business in favour of a motor which can look after your knees. Controllers are available with speed limiters which seem to me to fulfil the more morally important part of ebike law. That said there are motors labeled 250w which really do a lot more. Apparently the bafang cst ('ht' aka 180mm models), bpm (rare oem surplus models) ,and the xiongda two speed fit in this bracket.

 

[JohnCade]

The ASA ruled the advertisement by 50 Cycles to be misleading.

That is what I take at face value.

Seems odd to me that you as a consumer should support the publishing of dodgy adverts, but you are, of course, entitled to your view.

Some desk jockey there who replied to her email query told her that on the face of it the website seemed to imply what she claimed. Not exactly a ruling from the ASA was it?

I don’t think there was any dodgy advert at all which if you actually read my posts is what I was writing on the other thread. There was an ambiguous sentence on the website which she deliberately misunderstood to take advantage of. So why you think I’m supporting dodgy adverts is beyond me.

If you had grasped that simple point maybe my views wouldn’t seem odd to you eh? But thank you anyway for allowing me to have them.

 

[Wander]

The OP has done all prospective customers a favour by teaching 50 Cycles a lesson.

Actually the reverse is probably true.

As a result of the OP's actions 50 Cycles have removed their no quibble guarantee & will, no doubt, toughen up their T's & C's to prevent people taking advantage.

Personally I don't blame them.

 

[RobF]

Some desk jockey there who replied to her email query told her that on the face of it the website seemed to imply what she claimed. Not exactly a ruling from the ASA was it?

I don’t think there was any dodgy advert at all which if you actually read my posts is what I was writing on the other thread. There was an ambiguous sentence on the website which she deliberately misunderstood to take advantage of. So why you think I’m supporting dodgy adverts is beyond me.

If you had grasped that simple point maybe my views wouldn’t seem odd to you eh? But thank you anyway for allowing me to have them.

What you don't grasp is her understanding of the advert is irrelevant.

The judge is this case is the ASA.

As soon as that went against 50 Cycles, they were badly on the back foot.

 

[RobF]

Actually the reverse is probably true.

As a result of the OP's actions 50 Cycles have removed their no quibble guarantee & will, no doubt, toughen up their T's & C's to prevent people taking advantage.

Personally I don't blame them.

Reading some posts on here you would think the OP had shot Bambi.

She merely forced a company with a mixed record on service to honour its own guarantee.

If she has also made 50 Cycles make its terms and conditions less ambivalent, she done them - and prospective customers - a favour.

 

[Wander]

She merely forced a company with a mixed record on service to honour its own guarantee.

No She didn't.

She forced 50 cycles into a corner to accept HER STRETCHED INTERPRETATION of their guarantee graphic. She relied on her interpretation of that one roundel & completely dismissed what the t's & c's actually said.