Tern Vektron S10 gen3

Sav

Pedelecer
Nov 25, 2006
75
4
77
Great Mongeham
Yes you're right on that, I had not spotted how bad the stress marks on the bottom of the bars are until I put an LED light on it, there are no marks on the top, clearly show they broke in a downwards direction.

stress-marks.jpg

As you say, still does not allocate responsibility.
 

MelbournePark

Pedelecer
May 22, 2023
27
3
I am a yachtsman and alloy masts and poles can just break. Its because aluminium "work hardens". It gets more brittle and then it will just fail.

An example of alloy changing its characteristics happened with a small boat I bought for my 10 year old. The boat was used but was fast. It was a one design class but the boats had small differences. My son was never quick in the boat, although he seemed to sail well. Two years later I bought another boat for him and I put the mast and sail in the boat he had been using. He was still about the same speed as before. Then I bought a new mast for the boat. And suddenly, he was winning races. I then tested the old mast and found it had lost its "life" - with weights hanging off its middle, I pushed the mast downwards, and then watched in settle. I did the same with the new mast. The new mast went up and down, up and down, for a long time. The old mast went up and down up and down and then sat there. Dead. No "life".

I imagine that same work hardening can effect handle bars on a bike.

Its also quite possible, that it was a poor alloy all along. Chinese companies (yes I have just bought two Chinese made bikes) outsource a lot, and change suppliers a lot. I can tell many stories about their attitude on just buying things in without much QC. It could just have been a bad batch of alloy tubing. Or a different grade of alloy tubing.

It would be straightforward to reinforce new bars ... with some composite wrap. Glass, kevlar or carbon. Ugly, but it would last forever.

Shame on a quality bike for that to happen. Got to count your blessings though, it could have been a lot worse.

I also suspect that lower air pressures, while less efficient, may aid stress on handle bars, due to less shock and vibration. The Tern folding bikes though, are equipped with bigger 20" tyres than most ... and larger volume of air should have reduced the shocks more than most 20" folding bikes IMO.
 

AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
1,429
618
I am a yachtsman and alloy masts and poles can just break. Its because aluminium "work hardens". It gets more brittle and then it will just fail.
I've yet to hear about that. De-masts i know about were always weather ndition related. Mates parents yacht(8m/27') is mid 70's(thats what, 50 years old?) and mast and boom still havent broken. and his own racing yacht(10m/30') with is about 20 years old with a racing life is also still going strong. Masts dont 'suddenly' snap.
 

MelbournePark

Pedelecer
May 22, 2023
27
3
I've yet to hear about that. De-masts i know about were always weather ndition related. Mates parents yacht(8m/27') is mid 70's(thats what, 50 years old?) and mast and boom still havent broken. and his own racing yacht(10m/30') with is about 20 years old with a racing life is also still going strong. Masts dont 'suddenly' snap.
They break under pressure, certainly. Alloy tends to tear and then snap off. I've broken a mast in a World Soling Championship of Queberon / France. I'm Australian, so I leased a boat. It was a few years old, and the mast had age hardened and become brittle. It's a known issue. Another Australian racing there was John Bertrand, and he also broke his mast in the same race. John later won the America's Cup, for the first time defeating the USA. The breeze wasn't very strong either that day.

The "Ocean Race" is still on now. There have been two broken masts, one boat retiring from the competition. I own a Sunfast 3200, and I sail in single handed. Obviously its setup for short handed racing. One of the things people traditionally like about a mast that goes through the deck and sits on the keel, is that if the mast breaks with such a setup, the remains of the mast can still be used to rig up a jury rig and sail to land. While a mast that sits on the cabin top, being able to do that, is far more unlikely to be able to be jury rigged after breaking at sea. Just an example of popular thinking on boats that go to ocean.

One of the reasons I bought a folding electric bike, is so that I can put in inside my boat. And also to ride to the yacht club - it takes me 14 minutes to get to my boat now, but over 20 coming home. I reckon I might be able to get home in 14 minutes from the boat with the electric bike. Going home from the yacht club is uphill!!

Masts do do break but its normally because of something else failing that causes too much strain. But masts do age harden. They are alloy, and its a very known issue with alloy. The Comet airplane could have made Britain the dominant air manufacturing giant after World War II. But after two years, the jet airplane's lovely large almost square windows fatigued and cracked, and the planes started crashing. They did not fly for a couple of years and it hurt Hawker Dehavilland a great deal. Boing would later say but for the Comet, the same issues would have killed the 707. Metal fatigue they called it then. Or work hardening. Alloy works and then becomes brittle and are more likely to break. Spinnaker poles of yachts are not much supported, and they just snap under conditions they have endured often before. Due to age hardening.

Ask those people you know who own boats, they will tell you about alloy hardening, if they are racing sailors. Racing yachts also are designed for the masts to bend. One reason is to optimise performance. Cruising boats though, have much more rigid masts, which are thicker, and not intended to bend much at all. The boats you describe sound like those sort of boats. While they are less likely to break, the facts are that their alloys would have changed characteristics over the years. If I was crossing the Pacific or the Atlantic etc., if that was my boat, I likely would not replace the mast. But I'd go right over the rigging, all the stay attachment points, to establish where issues had arisen. In Australia, we have to replace our rigging every 10 years, its an insurance demand. At the same time, the mast is gone right over by professional mast riggers.

These guys broke a mast too in the current Ocean Race, and they when getting back into the race, broke the world record for monohull sail boats, covering 640 nautical miles in 24 hours. That's almost an average spped of 50 KMH. or over 30 MPH. Without peddling too (that would be cheating!). Just 5 people on board. Check the 2 minute video:
But their mast failure was a carbon composite. They tend to sort of explode when they break, rather than sort of tear which is what alloy does.

Titanium is used on some bikes because it does not age harden. Neither does cast iron, but that is not suitable for bikes!!
 
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AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
1,429
618
Very interesting Melbourne. I certainly hadn't come across this issue and a lot of the yachts I've sailed on were older, so forgive me for thinking that its only in extreme conditions that mast go down.
But as I've said, I've not experienced it, and on some bigger races that were called off due to extreme wind conditions(47kts crossing the deck) there were de-mastings which could only have come from extreme conditions. Not in a light breeze you know.

Nice Jeanneau BTW very sharp looking boat, great sleek racing lines and twin idiot sticks.
Surprised not to see spinnaker winches on it though. I take it its doubling up on the sheet winches, must be why they're placed quite far back.
Certainly a nice boat to own, a real head turner.

Mates boat was a Europa 3000, fast as f*** in fact because we kept winning all our races they changed the handicap from IOR4 to IOR3 to let the others taste a bit of gin. We stopped racing after that. Pretty unheard of for whats effectively a 28'(9m waterline/10m on deck) to be a class 3. Thats more your classification. But you know how club racing is, its all funny handshakes
 

MelbournePark

Pedelecer
May 22, 2023
27
3
Very interesting Melbourne. I certainly hadn't come across this issue and a lot of the yachts I've sailed on were older, so forgive me for thinking that its only in extreme conditions that mast go down.
But as I've said, I've not experienced it, and on some bigger races that were called off due to extreme wind conditions(47kts crossing the deck) there were de-mastings which could only have come from extreme conditions. Not in a light breeze you know.

Nice Jeanneau BTW very sharp looking boat, great sleek racing lines and twin idiot sticks.
Surprised not to see spinnaker winches on it though. I take it its doubling up on the sheet winches, must be why they're placed quite far back.
Certainly a nice boat to own, a real head turner.

Mates boat was a Europa 3000, fast as f*** in fact because we kept winning all our races they changed the handicap from IOR4 to IOR3 to let the others taste a bit of gin. We stopped racing after that. Pretty unheard of for whats effectively a 28'(9m waterline/10m on deck) to be a class 3. Thats more your classification. But you know how club racing is, its all funny handshakes
Sounds like lots of fun!

There are sheets aft for the symmetrical spinnaker, which also are shared when using the asymmetrical sails. The sheet (also guy) goes through a block which is close to the aft winch. The block (which is a pulley) also has a lever cleat attached to it. So you can use any of the four winches to pull the guy (weather sheet) around and then cleat it and then the winch is unnecessary. Unless you need to pull in the guy again. The design allows the winches to do work for both off the wind and on the on the wind jib. Also to pull sails up.

Yes, the design is optimised for a single hander sailing the boat, hence the instruments at the back, and 2 winches back there. The mainsail is back there, a more direct mainsheet pull plus a multi fine adjust mainsheet with tails to both sides, aft for the helm. The back stay also leads to both sides aft for the helm. There are blocks so that leeward sheets can run to a leeward winch or lead to windward for the main helm position.

You don't need a winch for the mainsail, and off the wind, a single person can adjust the sheet using the windward aft winch located near the helms person's windward steering position. The boat is designed that way. I have a remote around my neck too, and I can engage the auto-pilot with that, or via the aft touch screens. So I can engage the auto pilot and use the cabin top winches if I need to. The auto pilot can go for around 40 hours. But I need to add solar and a hydro generator or a wind turbine to further the auto pilot range. But I can turn the diesel motor on as well in order to charge the batteries, but I hate to run the motor.

Fatigue is an issue with all boats. They all expand and contract, as does their gear. Hence why maintenance of boats costs a fair bit of money. Recently Ian Herbert-Jones who was soloing around the world for the second time in a Golden Globe "race", lost his mast and had to be rescued. Masts can just break but mostly do so when the boat rolls.

Sometimes with older boats, the keels pop off - the bolts just sheer. The bolts are steel, but they do suffer from fatigue. Hence why people check them, and some replace them. Older boats such as wooden ones which have age handicaps, sometimes have bigger masts and more powerful sails on them - and the extra force downwards creates more stress on the keep bolts and the area supporting the keel. Which has lead to catastrophy, such as when Winston Churchall's sinking in the Sydney Hobart race.

Spinnaker poles quite often break too and they are alloy. Which is what I thought about when I saw the broken handle bars. It just looked like a work hardening failure, brought on I presumed by a extra force, although that was not specifically reported.
 
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Sav

Pedelecer
Nov 25, 2006
75
4
77
Great Mongeham
Well a year on from being dumped in the road I still have the Vectron, Cannot say I am relaxed riding it as I never lean heavily on the bars now and check them regularly. The bars have not folded again.

I keep looking at replacing it but cannot see even a premium hub drive pulling up the steep hills on the lanes in East Kent as well as the mid drive Vectron and I'm 76 now and unfit so need the assistance.

Just thought I would give an update.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,531
3,277
Well a year on from being dumped in the road I still have the Vectron, Cannot say I am relaxed riding it as I never lean heavily on the bars now and check them regularly. The bars have not folded again.
Good to hear from you. I trust your rib/ribs healed up ok. That's quite the injury to recover from at your age. I've never heard of this brand and I don't recognise the motor, but I spotted this on the CH White website. I also don't know if their handlebars are made using same cheese Tern use to make theirs. 3 gear hub? Daft. There are no decent pre-built mid-drive folding bikes available that I can find.



 
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