[technical] BMS options when re-celling a Giant powerpak battery

[peter3333]

I wondered whether it is possible to re-cell a Giant powerpak without running into issues with (blocking by) the original BMS. Both for the UART (5 pin charge) and the later CANBUS (3 pin) battery, as I own two bikes using those two battery types.
Also, I hope someone here knows whether the BMS is somehow blocked (or not) to use cells with higher capacity than the original 300 Wh battery or that I can replace the Sanyo UR18650AA cells with LG M29 cells (praised for their performance at a lower price than Samsung/Sanyo). Is there any order of disconnecting the leads / balance wires that needs to be followed?

 

[thelarkbox]

How built in are the 'custom' systems? isnt gutting and replacing with unencumbered clean tech viable?

If already prepared to re-cell a battery finishing the job with a no-hassle bms should be a lot easier than trying to avoid a self bricking system cutting its own throat due to a procedural error.

 

[peter3333]

How built in are the 'custom' systems? isnt gutting and replacing with unencumbered clean tech viable?

The battery BMS is of course linked to the other components of the bike (motor, display). Therefore changing the BMS seems not viable, as the bike will not recognise a custom BMS. (And the original BMS is fine, so why change it).
I see a lot of refurbish companies offering to re-cell these batteries (although the CAN type not by all of them), so there should not be a major issue to do so.

Just hoping that someone here knows whether these BMSs are ok with re-celling (with increased capacity of those).

 

[chris_n]

I'm sure you will find the answer to your question here.

Yamaha

Fertig-Pedelecs, die mit dem Yamaha-Antrieb ausgestattet sind.

www.pedelecforum.de

It is German but most browsers these days have the facility to translate.

 

[thelarkbox]

The battery BMS is of course linked to the other components of the bike (motor, display). Therefore changing the BMS seems not viable, as the bike will not recognise a custom BMS. (And the original BMS is fine, so why change it).
I see a lot of refurbish companies offering to re-cell these batteries (although the CAN type not by all of them), so there should not be a major issue to do so.

Just hoping that someone here knows whether these BMSs are ok with re-celling (with increased capacity of those).

Im not an expert like many here, but the general advise offered to folk with such locked down systems is to replace them.

A replacement control system using the original sensors/throttle can provide more power and no restriction full configuration options, And allow the use of significantly cheaper generic batteries.

Some bikes have the control system built into the bike to the extent any control system upgrades could leave gapping holes in the bikes frame/body.

But since your prepared to re-cell the battery and built in batteries could present the major stumbling block to a control system upgrade. If you could upgrade the control system without determent to the bikes aesthetic, while a bit more work now, could save you £££s and time later down the rd.. ? and give you a bit more oomph for hills if needed and more top speed for the rare times you are on private land

 

[Ghost1951]

and give you a bit more oomph for hills if needed and more top speed for the rare times you are on private land

 

[saneagle]

Im not an expert like many here, but the general advise offered to folk with such locked down systems is to replace them.

A replacement control system using the original sensors/throttle can provide more power and no restriction full configuration options, And allow the use of significantly cheaper generic batteries.

Some bikes have the control system built into the bike to the extent any control system upgrades could leave gapping holes in the bikes frame/body.

But since your prepared to re-cell the battery and built in batteries could present the major stumbling block to a control system upgrade. If you could upgrade the control system without determent to the bikes aesthetic, while a bit more work now, could save you £££s and time later down the rd.. ? and give you a bit more oomph for hills if needed and more top speed for the rare times you are on private land

He can't replace anything. The system is locked. The motor is integral to the bike.

 

[saneagle]

I'm sure you will find the answer to your question here.

Yamaha

Fertig-Pedelecs, die mit dem Yamaha-Antrieb ausgestattet sind.

www.pedelecforum.de

It is German but most browsers these days have the facility to translate.

I'm pretty sure that I heard that the Giant version of the Yamaha system uses different comms, so the Yamaha hacks don't work.

It's the same old thing. People buy their bikes according to the specification. It's only later that they figure out that other things become more important, like serviceability and cost and/or availability of spare parts.

 

[chris_n]

I'm pretty sure that I heard that the Giant version of the Yamaha system uses different comms, so the Yamaha hacks don't work.

It's the same old thing. People buy their bikes according to the specification. It's only later that they figure out that other things become more important, like serviceability and cost and/or availability of spare parts.

I'm sure I have seen info on Giant batteries on there some time ago, I know Giant have their own control system but that is the only resource I know of for that sort of info.

 

[thelarkbox]

He can't replace anything. The system is locked. The motor is integral to the bike.

DOH!
bet it looks good tho..

 

[peter3333]

I'm sure I have seen info on Giant batteries on there some time ago, I know Giant have their own control system but that is the only resource I know of for that sort of info.

For the CANBUS battery that is indeed as far as I got; different communication as Yamaha, so the hack does not work. However, I do not know if you actually cannot simply recell without issues. Nobody here ever recelled a Giant powerpak CANBUS battery?

I will ask at the suggested German forum as well (I even understand German ). I already found the UART battery should be no issue at all, BMS will accept everything, even 625Wh!