Sympathetic conversion ideas for Raleigh Clubman from the 80's

[Peter.Bridge]

Topbikekit do a 1.44 kg akm-75 front hub motor, 201 rpm (which is fine in a 700c wheel with 15.5 mph motor cut off)
Very little resistance above that speed. Maybe combine with 36v 10Ah bag battery that attaches to saddle with room for controller eg Woosh (1.8kg)

E-bike Batteries from Woosh

Prices of electric bike Lithium batteries. Woosh has a range of 9 well built and stylish electric foldables, mountain bikes and road bikes featuring Bafang motor and PICC Lithium 36V battery from £399 to £699.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[Peter.Bridge]

@Woosh have you got the Tongsheng 85TS kit in stock, would that be a possibility ?

 

[Bikes4two]

Hi @Vin - as you've seen, opinions vary - here's some more to add to the pile:

• The brakes
  - if we take a front hub conversion as an example, you'll be adding the weight of the motor plus the electronics and a small bag to hold them - so around 2.5Kg. Then there's a battery - if your'e going for something like a 7Ah then let's say 1Kg, so around 3.5Kg.
  - Now, if you're brakes are serving you well now then IMHO by just adding 3.5Kg won't make much of a difference.
  - plus if you are only going to be using the motor for marginal assistance then your road speed isn't going to be much if any different from what it is on the unassisted version
• Having used a bike with a TSDZ2 mid drive conversion for a few years now, my fitness level has improved and I don't have to use as much 'e' in my biking as I used to, thus I resurected my road bike with a front hub conversion (Aikema 100SX).
• In that conversion I'm still working out the most discrete places for the KT Controller and wires but the battery fits nicely in the seat pack.
• Oh, and early days (less than a 100 miles so far) but the ride it gives me is very enjoyable and because the total weight of the bike (less tools) is around 14Kg, much of the ride is over 25Kph and thus battery usage is frugal with my 8.4Ah battery likely good for 60+ miles (yet to be fully range tested).

 

[saneagle]

Hi @Vin - as you've seen, opinions vary - here's some more to add to the pile:

• The brakes
  - if we take a front hub conversion as an example, you'll be adding the weight of the motor plus the electronics and a small bag to hold them - so around 2.5Kg. Then there's a battery - if your'e going for something like a 7Ah then let's say 1Kg, so around 3.5Kg.
  - Now, if you're brakes are serving you well now then IMHO by just adding 3.5Kg won't make much of a difference.
  - plus if you are only going to be using the motor for marginal assistance then your road speed isn't going to be much if any different from what it is on the unassisted version
• Having used a bike with a TSDZ2 mid drive conversion for a few years now, my fitness level has improved and I don't have to use as much 'e' in my biking as I used to, thus I resurected my road bike with a front hub conversion (Aikema 100SX)View attachment 61550.
• In that conversion I'm still working out the most discrete places for the KT Controller and wires but the battery fits nicely in the seat pack.
• Oh, and early days (less than a 100 miles so far) but the ride it gives me is very enjoyable and because the total weight of the bike (less tools) is around 14Kg, much of the ride is over 25Kph and thus battery usage is frugal with my 8.4Ah battery likely good for 60+ miles (yet to be fully range tested).

It's been 5 days since he posted. It's finished now. We're just waiting for the photos.

 

[Vin]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I was out for a long fun on my wifes Carrera e vengeance today and have never ridden it properly before. I took it because needed to take it somewhere in the car first and only had access to a supermini (no rack) and was the Array wouldn't fit in it. also it is fitted with Marathon plus as well as tyre anti puncture liners which have needed in now and work well and didn't want a puncture on this run. The Argos folder would have fitted but didn't have the range needed. I really enjoyed riding the Carrera mtb and got to thinking each of the bikes has its own character and electrifying the 531 racer especially would be like replacing the engine in a Testarossa with batteries and take away from its soul especially the sort of bodge job I would probably end up doing.

 

[saneagle]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I was out for a long fun on my wifes Carrera e vengeance today and have never ridden it properly before. I took it because needed to take it somewhere in the car first and only had access to a supermini (no rack) and was the Array wouldn't fit in it. also it is fitted with Marathon plus as well as tyre anti puncture liners which have needed in now and work well and didn't want a puncture on this run. The Argos folder would have fitted but didn't have the range needed. I really enjoyed riding the Carrera mtb and got to thinking each of the bikes has its own character and electrifying the 531 racer especially would be like replacing the engine in a Testarossa with batteries and take away from its soul especially the sort of bodge job I would probably end up doing.

Carrera Vengeance is a really nice bike as long as it works. Unfortunately, when it stops working, the nightmare begins, and, sadly, that comes too soon for many owners. The latest version has some improvements that should make it a bit more robust.

 

[Vin]

Hi, when we bought ours actually must have been 5+ years ago I intentionally sought out a model with the suntour hesc torque system after buying the Raleigh Array with it. I had tried cadence sensor bike at the time in Decathlon and the unnatural and delayed "turbo surge" when just turning the cranks was offputting and thought would present issues with fine control at low speed. I didn't spend too long testing so perhaps a different technique would have worked. However the hesc system was a delight to use delivering the power in a far more natural refined way. Halfords were using both the cadence and hesc systems at the time for different models but the womens e vengeance had the hesc system at the time. I think it is now sold with the simpler cadence system possibly due to more demand for this or possibly less to go wrong or a combination of the two. We initially even used the bikes on light mountain bike trails for some time but when I read about the potential fragility of some of the e parts e.g. the little plastic torque sensor exposed on the crank we have been using them on river paths, gravel and roads since . I commuted occasionally from Kent to London on the Array in all weathers and neither of the bikes have ever let us down and the battery from the Array which I used on the Carrera yesterday got me from the Thames Barrier to Chiswick and back with 1 bar remaining (outgoing on a mix of economy & mid and return on high power). I do longer runs on a non assisted Giant Revolt gravel bike but yesterday was just not feeling up to cycling without assistance so having the ebike got me out and definitely still got some exercise.

The only issue we had was when I mishandled the Carrera during transporting it and the chain came off when wheeling it backwards cracking the guard of the torque sensor. I patched this up with some araldite although you have to be careful not to get it on the thin rubber surround of the crank as it could tear it when the crank rotates. Perhaps the materials used were necessary from some sort of safety aspect or just to reduce cost. Last time I asked Halfords a few months ago they said they could source parts e.g. the whole crank assembly if required and sell the 313 watt battery for the Carrera at the moment for £400 (which works on the Array). My branch lets me use multiple discount vouchers combined also which other branches say they shouldn't be doing. At the moment for a few hundred more than the battery you can get the new Array with the larger battery and the hesc system for £700 and I would still buy it (it is the price I paid 5 years ago for mine under cycle to work) if I didn't have one. Although they are the same systems my Halfords branch confirmed they will only repair the electrical parts for the Carrera as I bought it from Halfords but not the Array. However the branch checks over my Array and fine tunes the mechanicals without charging if I ask. (they also fitted the Marathon plus tyres on it).

 

[Bikes4two]

................... each of the bikes has its own character and electrifying the 531 racer especially would be like replacing the engine in a Testarossa with batteries and take away from its soul especially the sort of bodge job I would probably end up doing.

Yes, I get that about loosing the soul of the machine and if fettling with electric cables and so forth isn't your thing, and not being able to shorten and hide cables and then clamping on some hideous battery case rather than a discrete alternative, would indeed spoil 'the look' of the original just too much!

Since taking the pic for post #13 above, I've further fettled in an effort to hide cabling to a more pleasing level. The battery pack is in the seat pack and the controller in a small top tube bag along with the essential roadside repair kit and a couple of spare tubes, all controlled by the small KT-LCD4 display on the handlebars. Now all I need to do is re-build the front wheel using the Campag rim from the original wheel and 'bob's your antie' as they say.......

 

[Vin]

Thanks for sharing this . Something similar on the Clubman if done well could even enhance the look. The silver front hub would fit in well in proportion and complementing the crank and other chromed parts and the controller could go in the existing bag on mine. As you mentioned adding a lightweight kit to an already lightweight racer/ road bike of this type is unlikely to affect the feel/ handling to any significant degree and could add an extra dimension in terms of usability in a package that comes in at a very low weight for an ebike. The cost of the entire kit although important may be less of an issue to a point as you would be converting something you have and perhaps could say are emotionally attached to. However with the market now offering cheaper and cheaper perfectly usable bikes e.g. since starting this thread the Apollo Phase which seems quite popular and reliable has gone down to 499 (and with a couple of combined discount vouchers £400 for me) Apollo Phaze-E Electric Mountain Bike 20" | Halfords UK it may even be feasible to buy something similar at a lower cost than a kit and utilise some or all of the parts somehow coming in at a lower cost than the kit.

 

[Vin]

They've even got a couple of free ones but I'm leaning to a front hub conversion

Electric Bikes | E-Bikes | Halfords UK

 

[Al Wright]

Similar style frame with 100G conversion kit, 360 Whr battery, a later mod includes a switch, mounted on stem, to interrupt the pedal sensor circuit thus conserving assist power for hills & headwinds.

 

[Gringo]

Totally not what you asked but I thought it worth mentioning, in the past few months two of my friends have bought (independently to each other) second hand Orbea’s
I don’t know the exact models but they both said they love them, neither spent more than £700.
they look similar to this picture

 

[Bikes4two]

Think very carefully before buying into a proprietary system (vs kit conversions using generic parts) as in the cost of any replacement parts, especially the battery and you need to be really sure that you have somewhere to deal with any problems that might arise.

Do a good search for something like 'Mahle battery problems' to discover that getting such problems is something a few folks seem to get.

Having said that there are more than 10 Mahle X35/X20 based systems in my local club and they are enjoying trouble free riding and love them.

 

[sjpt]

Absolutely agree with Bikes4two's comment above.

There tends to be more about Mahle systems on the Cycling UK website than there is here. https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewforum.php?f=55
Mahle is clearly a good match for many CTC members; interesting but not so appropriate for most readers here.
There do seem to be quite a few issues that come up on the CTC site, but as always people will be more likely to post problems than happy everyday use.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Absolutely agree with Bikes4two's comment above.

There tends to be more about Mahle systems on the Cycling UK website than there is here. https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewforum.php?f=55
Mahle is clearly a good match for many CTC members; interesting but not so appropriate for most readers here.
There do seem to be quite a few issues that come up on the CTC site, but as always people will be more likely to post problems than happy everyday use.

Is there anything special about the Mahle system or would a 201 rpm AKM-75 hub motor in a 700c wheel with a KT controller and 36V10Ah bag battery be as good / better ? (obvs - wouldn't look as cool)

 

[saneagle]

Is there anything special about the Mahle system or would a 201 rpm AKM-75 hub motor in a 700c wheel with a KT controller and 36V10Ah bag battery be as good / better ? (obvs - wouldn't look as cool)

I think you know the answer to that. The Mahle has a torque sensor, but I don't see it as an advantage. The DIY system should be a lot cheaper, more reliable, more flexible, more power options, more upgradeable , lower running costs, and easier to fix if anything ever did go wrong. AKM100 would be the equivalent motor.

 

[Bikes4two]

Is there anything special about the Mahle system or would a 201 rpm AKM-75 hub motor in a 700c wheel with a KT controller and 36V10Ah bag battery be as good / better ? (obvs - wouldn't look as cool)

The latest Mahle X20 system does use a torque and cadence sensor in the bottom bracket whilst the earlier X35 model did not have torque sensing AFAIK just a cadence sensor in the rear hub but none the less appeared to deliver power smoothly (so maybe using algorithms similar in effect to what KT controllers do?).

The battery in the downtube can be removed but is one heck of a job (BB needs removing and a heap of cables and then the replacement battery needs to be software matched to the remainder of the system, and of course the software to do this is not available to customers!).

I've only seen the X20 in thru axle form. Cabling is rather neat thru frame and handlebar controls very discreet.

Some kit hub motors and controllers can now work with BB torque sensors so in answer to your question the 'special' features are there but IMHO not worth it, cost wise or manufacturer tie-in wise but the Mahle equiped bikes are very neat to look at.