Swytch kit: compatibility with non-Swytch components?

[Benjahmin]

If you have room XT60's would be far better due to greater current capacity resulting in less heat damage/distortion.
Don'y worry about the motor being '250w'. This is merely a continuous rating, in other words the power consumption the motor can take without overheating. Any motor will take higher inputs for short periods i.e. hill climbing. The '500w' controller is 14A at the nominal battery voltage of 36v. It will only deliver this in max setting and during high power demand, i.e. hills or initial sart acceleration. Most of the time consumption will be far less.
Added to this is the fact that hub motors, with their large metal outer shells, are pretty good at loosing heat. You will get thermal cutout from the controller before the motor can suffer any damage.

 

[RogerNL]

Hello,
I've the latest Swytch kit with the AIR battery which has a 15km range. Good enough for mostrides, but it made me wonder if it is possible to connect one of those AliExpress battery packs and have a larger capacity available.

Given the compact size of the AIR, there doesn't seem to be much in it (like controllers or whathaveyou) save the batteries (however I've no clue how this works), so the only bottle neck seems to be the awkward connector that is being used?

Ideally the Swytch setup should remain useable 'as is' so that both the AIR can be used or the other battery.

I attached some pictures, maybe it helps?
On the holder connector pic you see only a red and black wire is being led into the controller (which seems to be integrated in the holder). That gives me the idea that nothing else is happening between AIR/battery and the holder/controller than current being fed to the system. Would it be so simple as to attach a positive to the connector pins on one side and the negative to the connector pins on the other side?
The battery being something like this ?

The controller can read how much power there is still left in the battery, which indicates that there is a little bit more going on between the battery and the holder/controller than only the current???

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[saneagle]

Hello,
I've the latest Swytch kit with the AIR battery which has a 15km range. Good enough for mostrides, but it made me wonder if it is possible to connect one of those AliExpress battery packs and have a larger capacity available.

Given the compact size of the AIR, there doesn't seem to be much in it (like controllers or whathaveyou) save the batteries (however I've no clue how this works), so the only bottle neck seems to be the awkward connector that is being used?

Ideally the Swytch setup should remain useable 'as is' so that both the AIR can be used or the other battery.

I attached some pictures, maybe it helps?
On the holder connector pic you see only a red and black wire is being led into the controller (which seems to be integrated in the holder). That gives me the idea that nothing else is happening between AIR/battery and the holder/controller than current being fed to the system. Would it be so simple as to attach a positive to the connector pins on one side and the negative to the connector pins on the other side?
The battery being something like this ?

The controller can read how much power there is still left in the battery, which indicates that there is a little bit more going on between the battery and the holder/controller than only the current???

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much for the information. There's something you said that I don't understand. How are the wires connected to the four pins on the battery holder? The picture is too fuzzy to see anything. You say there are only two wires, so are they connected to two pins in one side, one pin on each side, or are they connected to both pins on each side?

 

[matthewslack]

I'd look a bit further than the linked battery. That's the sort of bottom end cheap rubbish likely to suffer from the defects that cause battery fires.

 

[StuartsProjects]

There have been a few requests about this recently, search the Forum for 'Swytch'

So far it does not seem to be known what the 4 blade type connectors on the battery are for, no-one has posted decent pictures of the inside of the holder\controller.

If there are wires on those 4 connectors there might be some sort of interface between controller and battery.

 

[saneagle]

There have been a few requests about this recently, search the Forum for 'Swytch'

So far it does not seem to be known what the 4 blade type connectors on the battery are for, no-one has posted decent pictures of the inside of the holder\controller.

If there are wires on those 4 connectors there might be some sort of interface between controller and battery.

RogerNL said there are two wires and has a photo, which is to blurred to see. What you can see is that the middle two on the battery don't connect, so they're just for the charger. That means only the 4 blades are used for the power connection.

If there are indeed only two wires connecte, then it will be very easy to use an alternative or extension battery. just drill a hole in the case, splice on a couple of wires and a connector, or, if there's space, run the added battery wires out where the other wires come, then you can connect any battery you want whenever you want as long as the Swytch one isn't connected.

 

[RogerNL]

Thank you for all your quick responses and sorry for the blurred picture. I made a new one. Clearly the black and red wire can be seen.

The 2 blades left and right slide in the openings left and right of the AIR/battery connector. Indeed it is unclear how the 2 pins on each side are connected given the visible black and red wire and whether something else is going on (data transfer of battery level is what I can think of) other than current/power.

Fair point on the quality of the battery example. Let's get the solution first, then find the best battery for the job

 

[Woosh]

The outer pins may not be needed. The battery pack looks like composed simply of 10 cells connected in series.

 

[saneagle]

The 2 blades left and right slide in the openings left and right of the AIR/battery connector. Indeed it is unclear how the 2 pins on each side are connected given the visible black and red wire and whether something else is going on (data transfer of battery level is what I can think of) other than current/power.

Thank you again. There cannot be any data comms if there are only two wires. You can connect any 36v battery to those wires. Hopefully, there is another connector inside the box between the connector and the controller that you can use, otherwise you can add your own.

Are then any screws so that you can open the box to see what's inside?

 

[RogerNL]

Screws
Well ... I was hoping someone with a more technical background and nerves had been brave enough to open the holder and peek inside.

I checked and indeed there are some screws on the back and bottom but any previous attempt to open something that needs power and has wires inside ended up with me trowing everything in the bin as I usually break things, so I'd rather not try this.

 

[Quincetessence]

The outer pins may not be needed. The battery pack looks like composed simply of 10 cells connected in series.

Hello, I stumbled upon this thread trying to explore the same question. I just today tried attaching only the middle two pins to the middle two slots of the battery. The battery lights come on, signalling an electrical connection. However, when I tried to turn bike itself on, it didn't work.

Testing the battery with a multimeter, I noticed the positive terminal must be connected to the inside slot, but a circuit completes with a negative on either the inside or the outside slot. I agree that the holder needs to be opened up to check for sure, but maybe current needs to be sent to both sets of negative pins for some reason?

A more skilled electrical engineer might have an explanation that I do not.

 

[guerney]

The suspense is killing me, I do hope a Swytch kit owner opens things up. Much like goods bought from Chinese websites, from what I've read about Swytch on this forum, I doubt satisfactory resolution will result for many regarding Swytch warranty repairs. I count myself lucky that the Chinese seller of my BBS01B kit honoured his guarantee (despite my causing the fault), but I did have to post the controller to China.

 

[StuartsProjects]

but maybe current needs to be sent to both sets of negative pins for some reason?

Or maybe the controller expects more than just a simple 'current' from the battery.

 

[peterjd]

Hello, I stumbled upon this thread trying to explore the same question. I just today tried attaching only the middle two pins to the middle two slots of the battery. The battery lights come on, signalling an electrical connection. However, when I tried to turn bike itself on, it didn't work.

Testing the battery with a multimeter, I noticed the positive terminal must be connected to the inside slot, but a circuit completes with a negative on either the inside or the outside slot. I agree that the holder needs to be opened up to check for sure, but maybe current needs to be sent to both sets of negative pins for some reason?

A more skilled electrical engineer might have an explanation that I do not.

Adapting the Mk 1 kit was so simple and rewarding - perhaps Swytch have learnt how to deter that with later versions or am I being too cynical

 

[Quincetessence]

So a small update:

I opened up the mount, and once inside it's fairly straightforward. It's just a controller with cables run through the openings in the casing.





Unfortunately, the wiring to the battery connector itself is sealed off. Since it's just a simple controller, my *guess* is that one could simply take the battery connection wires and rewire them to a different plug type for other battery use, though of course this would prevent it from working with the Swytch battery again.



I've attached the pictures for you all to take a look.

 

[saneagle]

So a small update:

I opened up the mount, and once inside it's fairly straightforward. It's just a controller with cables run through the openings in the casing.

View attachment 52992

View attachment 52993

Unfortunately, the wiring to the battery connector itself is sealed off. Since it's just a simple controller, my *guess* is that one could simply take the battery connection wires and rewire them to a different plug type for other battery use, though of course this would prevent it from working with the Swytch battery again.

View attachment 52994

I've attached the pictures for you all to take a look.

Thanks. That's what In thought it would be. It means that you can use any battery you want. Just drill a small hole and run two wires through with the connector of your choice outside, then splice them to the two existing wires. A downtube battery should be OK with 14g silicone wire. For a rack battery, I'd use 12g or13g. With a decent battery, you could add a bit of solder to the shunt in the controller to get a bit more power.

 

[peterjd]

The controller looks very similar to the one in my Mk1 kit which I adapted. Now use rear rack batteries (Yose torpedo type and Bosch lawnmower 36V 2.6Ah Liion for short journeys) with suitable 'plugs' and heavy duty 'speaker' wire to connect. Much better weight distribution. Peter

 

[RogerNL]

Thanks @Quincetessence for being brave and showing us the inside!
Red and black wire ...that should be doable, even for me.

Now, which of Ali's vast supply of batteries would be of good enough quality and will work?
Those blue taped packages don't look like very solid or waterproof.
These look better:
Silverfish battery or Bottle battery
Would these be any good?

 

[saneagle]

Thanks @Quincetessence for being brave and showing us the inside!
Red and black wire ...that should be doable, even for me.

Now, which of Ali's vast supply of batteries would be of good enough quality and will work?
Those blue taped packages don't look like very solid or waterproof.
These look better:
Silverfish battery or Bottle battery
Would these be any good?

I've never had a bad battery from Aliexpress nor other Chinese suppliers. You just have to use a bit of common sense. Remember, you need one that's rated at 30A minimum, which rules out all the cheapest ones.

 

[RogerNL]

I've never had a bad battery from Aliexpress nor other Chinese suppliers. You just have to use a bit of common sense. Remember, you need one that's rated at 30A minimum, which rules out all the cheapest ones.

Ehh ... I'm really not technical,so I can only go with the info I get/see, and the sticker on the controller says 12A. Maybe you mean 30V as in the Low voltage protection value?

Sorry if I confuse myself and, possibly, others.