Swytch bike problems

[Gill Wright]

Has anyone had this problem, we had our 2 biked fitted and working with swytch kits. Took them both out for a 4 mile ride, no problem. Then on the second day we were in the middle of the woods, having a stop, I got on my bike to start up and the front wheel fell of. The 2 bike forks at the front had completely sheared off. We got the bike home and checked the wheel from the broken bike on the other bike, seemed to be no problem. My other half decided to take it for a test ride and the same thing happened, front 2 forks sheared off. I can't say I have much confidence in the same thing not happening again even if we do get the bikes repaired.

 

[matthewslack]

Has anyone had this problem, we had our 2 biked fitted and working with swytch kits. Took them both out for a 4 mile ride, no problem. Then on the second day we were in the middle of the woods, having a stop, I got on my bike to start up and the front wheel fell of. The 2 bike forks at the front had completely sheared off. We got the bike home and checked the wheel from the broken bike on the other bike, seemed to be no problem. My other half decided to take it for a test ride and the same thing happened, front 2 forks sheared off. I can't say I have much confidence in the same thing not happening again even if we do get the bikes repaired.

Pictures would be useful to see the damage, and also what material are the forks made of?

 

[Hammie]

Has anyone had this problem, we had our 2 biked fitted and working with swytch kits. Took them both out for a 4 mile ride, no problem. Then on the second day we were in the middle of the woods, having a stop, I got on my bike to start up and the front wheel fell of. The 2 bike forks at the front had completely sheared off. We got the bike home and checked the wheel from the broken bike on the other bike, seemed to be no problem. My other half decided to take it for a test ride and the same thing happened, front 2 forks sheared off. I can't say I have much confidence in the same thing not happening again even if we do get the bikes repaired.

That is soooo scary and dangerous!

 

[Nealh]

Have the drop outs snapped or do you mean they have sheared off as one piece ?
The hubs should be 250w and likely not massively torqued so one assumes the forks were a bit crappy or the incorrect forks to use to start with.
With front hubs it is always best to have decent non suspension steel forks that have give and a light forward arc in them.

Please show us some close up pics of the damage.

I doubt it is anything to do with the kit , though Swytch generally don't have very favourable feed back on here ( due to very poor CS). The install and the fork itself will be the issue and not the kit.

A decent steel fork for a front hub will set you back about £128 , one often just can't fit a hub to any old fork. One has to know what they are doing .
Ali rracks easy and fatigue will set in quite quickly sometimes due to the rotational torque a front hub will apply.

 

[Gill Wright]

Have the drop outs snapped or do you mean they have sheared off as one piece ?
The hubs should be 250w and likely not massively torqued so one assumes the forks were a bit crappy or the incorrect forks to use to start with.
With front hubs it is always best to have decent non suspension steel forks that have give and a light forward arc in them.

Please show us some close up pics of the damage.

I doubt it is anything to do with the kit , though Swytch generally don't have very favourable feed back on here ( due to very poor CS). The install and the fork itself will be the issue and not the kit.

A decent steel fork for a front hub will set you back about £128 , one often just can't fit a hub to any old fork. One has to know what they are doing .
Ali rracks easy and fatigue will set in quite quickly sometimes due to the rotational torque a front hub will apply.

 

[Gill Wright]

Thanks for all the replies, the bikes are two.two calibres. I have attached photos of where the forks are sheared

 

[Nealh]

The Rockshoks aren't up to the task with hub motor , fatigue has set it and caused them to sheer.
I had the same issue years ago with Rockshoks and a BPM hub with tow torque arms , exactly the same occurred though took 1000 miles to show up the fatigue.

The kit is ok , it's just the forks aren't very capable as they weren't designed to take a motor. In the end I used a Suntour fork with a meaty drop out triangle and a pair of one piece torque arms .

You will need to either buy stronger fork with a meatier looking drop out or opt for some decent steel forks like the Surly disc trucker type.

 

[Nealh]

The suntour fork I used was a sf14 NEX for 700c wheels, the fork drop out is completely different to the Rockshok and one can see they are quite meaty with triangular gusset to strenghten them, though they still need torque arms for a belt n braces fitting. The suntour though are heavy and bit clunky but do the job quite well, after 4 - 5 years use mine showed no signs of fatigue.

I paid about £40 for my forks but now see they are slly money unless one buys used.

 

[Nealh]

These ones show the meatier drop out with the gusset triangle to reinforce them, though will still need a one piece torque arm made for each side.

SR Suntour Nex 700c 28" Suspension Disc Brake Forks | eBay

With my forks I made my own one piece metal torque arms out of 2 - 3mm mild steel.
First I drilled and filed the hole shape so that it fitted snuggley over the motor axle with out play , then with the motor wheel in the drop outs I drew the gusset shape on the metal.
I cut and shaped the metal so that it fitted and sat on the fork gusset one torque arm for each side, once done I used a drill bit to drill a hole not only throught the torque arm but also through the ali gusset on the fork drop out . The drop out drilled hole then was tapped out to take a m4 thread for the torque arm to be secured.

One needs a one piece torque arm with no bolted joint so it can't move at all and is 100% not going to move.

 

[Hwncomwnco]

My Swytch kit stopped working. They cant tell me what's wrong with it. The battery charges fine, the connections are immaculate. I even mounted the battery pack inside an old saddle bag to hide and protect it.
They have offered me to upgrade to the new kits and as a gesture of good will, knock £100 off the price. However, to get the lowest price I would have to pay the whole amount upfront, then wait 5 months. Then.. apply for the £100 refund back. And, it still might not fix the problem.

Does anybody know if someone who can test the Swytch kit to pinpoint what is wrong? I suggested this to Swytch but they don't want know. I've only had it 3 years. I hate not being able to fix stuff. I've been building and fixing bikes for 50 years.

 

[Nealh]

Can you tell us in which manner/how it stopped working ?
Any display error codes ?
If the display comes on /stays on then battery connection can be ruled out, that leaves either PAS, controller or motor halls.

If the motor is ok and controller are ok then the walk assist mode should work.
Walk assist /6 kmh mode activation is via throttle or by pressing and holding the display pad minus button or dedicated 6 kmh pad.

 

[saneagle]

My Swytch kit stopped working. They cant tell me what's wrong with it. The battery charges fine, the connections are immaculate. I even mounted the battery pack inside an old saddle bag to hide and protect it.
They have offered me to upgrade to the new kits and as a gesture of good will, knock £100 off the price. However, to get the lowest price I would have to pay the whole amount upfront, then wait 5 months. Then.. apply for the £100 refund back. And, it still might not fix the problem.

Does anybody know if someone who can test the Swytch kit to pinpoint what is wrong? I suggested this to Swytch but they don't want know. I've only had it 3 years. I hate not being able to fix stuff. I've been building and fixing bikes for 50 years.

It might help to say where you are.

Start by checking that the motor connector is pushed in ALL THE WAY TO THE MARKED LINE, not just in tight.

 

[Cisco-man]

What exact Swytch variant do you have?
When you turn the pedals does the red light on the PAS flash?
Some of the Swytch displays have a walk-test function to see if the hub is connected ok.

 

[Hwncomwnco]

Can you tell us in which manner/how it stopped working ?
Any display error codes ?
If the display comes on /stays on then battery connection can be ruled out, that leaves either PAS, controller or motor halls.

If the motor is ok and controller are ok then the walk assist mode should work.
Walk assist /6 kmh mode activation is via throttle or by pressing and holding the display pad minus button or dedicated 6 kmh pad.

Thanks for coming back to me Nealh. It all began when I was riding along, and suddenly I hear this awful grinding noise. It did sound like a mechanical problem. When I got home I put the bike on the stand and turned the cranks. It would then either not work all or sometimes start up with the grinding noise again. Holding the minus button for walk assist results in no movement at all. The lights on the display on top of the battery pack come on as normal. I've done a factory reset, but still nothing. The light on the PAS flashes as I turn the cranks.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[Hwncomwnco]

Thanks for coming back to me Nealh. It all began when I was riding along, and suddenly I hear this awful grinding noise. It did sound like a mechanical problem. When I got home I put the bike on the stand and turned the cranks. It would then either not work all or sometimes start up with the grinding noise again. Holding the minus button for walk assist results in no movement at all. The lights on the display on top of the battery pack come on as normal. I've done a factory reset, but still nothing. The light on the PAS flashes as I turn the cranks.
Thanks again for your help.

Sorry, l just saw the other reply. I have the 2nd gen Pro kit. I'm in Wales, and it's hilly here!

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for coming back to me Nealh. It all began when I was riding along, and suddenly I hear this awful grinding noise. It did sound like a mechanical problem. When I got home I put the bike on the stand and turned the cranks. It would then either not work all or sometimes start up with the grinding noise again. Holding the minus button for walk assist results in no movement at all. The lights on the display on top of the battery pack come on as normal. I've done a factory reset, but still nothing. The light on the PAS flashes as I turn the cranks.
Thanks again for your help.

The grinding noise is an electrical problem. Do not think it's mechanical just because it sounds and feels like it. There are several potential causes:
1. Motor connector not in far enough
2. Motor cable connectors at the controller end loose or not connected properly.
3. Melted connectors at the controller end
4. Damaged motor cable, especially where it comes out of the axle
5. Blown MOSFETs in the controller due to going too slow up a hill.

The worst thing you can do is continue to give power when you get the grinding noise. You start with a small issue, like 1 above, but if you keep trying when the motor can't turn, you get the consequential damage of 5 as well.

Check all the connectors and cable first, then we have to think about testing the MOSFETs.

Specially in relation to the earlier Swytch kits is the weird connection between the power-pack and the rest of the kit, it's very problematic and causes any of the above problems, which is why they abandoned it.

 

[peterjd]

Hi, Had a problem very much like that in the early days of my Mk 1 kit. Controller was replaced under warranty and I was also supplied with a Hall sensor bypass cable which I have retained ever since. No subsequent problems of that sort in ~ 3 years. Peter.
PS Weight on the handlebar multiconnection (which as Saneagle suggests is source of odd problems) was subsequently reduced by moving battery(ies) to rear pannier.

 

[Hwncomwnco]

The grinding noise is an electrical problem. Do not think it's mechanical just because it sounds and feels like it. There are several potential causes:
1. Motor connector not in far enough
2. Motor cable connectors at the controller end loose or not connected properly.
3. Melted connectors at the controller end
4. Damaged motor cable, especially where it comes out of the axle
5. Blown MOSFETs in the controller due to going too slow up a hill.

The worst thing you can do is continue to give power when you get the grinding noise. You start with a small issue, like 1 above, but if you keep trying when the motor can't turn, you get the consequential damage of 5 as well.

Check all the connectors and cable first, then we have to think about testing the MOSFETs.

Specially in relation to the earlier Swytch kits is the weird connection between the power-pack and the rest of the kit, it's very problematic and causes any of the above problems, which is why they abandoned it.

Thanks both,
The connection cables are in good condition and fully inserted. There's no sign of melting anywhere. Swytch did send me a replacement controller, but that didn't work. So it's down to the PAS or the motor. Trying it last night I managed to get the motor wheel moving what sounded like 'normal' by spinning the cranks (the chain is off) and then spinning the motor wheel. It would start with grinding noise then kick in to what seems like normal operation. Most of the time though, when I move cranks without touching the wheel, nothing happens. The pass glows solid red when still and flickers when the cranks move. So it looks like it's working as it should be.
The connecting bracket looks perfect - I've cleaned the contacts with switch cleaner. They look like new.
I'm on the lookout for a second hand motor wheel. I could always sell it on if that doesn't cure it.
Thanks again. I appreciate your advice.
H

 

[saneagle]

Thanks both,
The connection cables are in good condition and fully inserted. There's no sign of melting anywhere. Swytch did send me a replacement controller, but that didn't work. So it's down to the PAS or the motor. Trying it last night I managed to get the motor wheel moving what sounded like 'normal' by spinning the cranks (the chain is off) and then spinning the motor wheel. It would start with grinding noise then kick in to what seems like normal operation. Most of the time though, when I move cranks without touching the wheel, nothing happens. The pass glows solid red when still and flickers when the cranks move. So it looks like it's working as it should be.
The connecting bracket looks perfect - I've cleaned the contacts with switch cleaner. They look like new.
I'm on the lookout for a second hand motor wheel. I could always sell it on if that doesn't cure it.
Thanks again. I appreciate your advice.
H

The pedal sensor has no effect on the grinding noise other than to switch the power on to the motor so that it can happen. The grinding noise is caused when the commutation pulses from the controller are improperly timed or can't do anything because one of the phase wires has a bad connection. Timing problems are due to the hall sensors, either faulty or not connected properly. Basically, all grinding problems are cause by any of the motor wires not connected properly. The exceptions are when you have a faulty hall sensor from water in the motor or a blown or faulty MOSFET in the controller. The MOSFETS provide the commutation pulses that need to be in balance across all three phases. Intermittent grinding will always be a connection issue.

The other causes can normally be determined by the circumstances at the time of failure. MOSFETS blow under extreme load conditions. Hall sensors get water on them when it's raining or the day after.

Check the motor connector again. It has to be all the way in, not just in tight.

 

[Hwncomwnco]

The pedal sensor has no effect on the grinding noise other than to switch the power on to the motor so that it can happen. The grinding noise is caused when the commutation pulses from the controller are improperly timed or can't do anything because one of the phase wires has a bad connection. Timing problems are due to the hall sensors, either faulty or not connected properly. Basically, all grinding problems are cause by any of the motor wires not connected properly. The exceptions are when you have a faulty hall sensor from water in the motor or a blown or faulty MOSFET in the controller. The MOSFETS provide the commutation pulses that need to be in balance across all three phases. Intermittent grinding will always be a connection issue.

The other causes can normally be determined by the circumstances at the time of failure. MOSFETS blow under extreme load conditions. Hall sensors get water on them when it's raining or the day after.

Check the motor connector again. It has to be all the way in, not just in tight.

Hi,
The motor connector is all the way up to the line on the connector. It went wrong when I was riding across a flat car park, so no exceptional strain. It wasn't raining at the time.
Is there a way of getting the motor apart to check connection or water ingress?
Thanks