Switched from SWXB to Q100H

[Deere John]

What amps controller you running it with?

14A, (S06S)

 

[awol]

14A, (S06S)

It's good yours feels great at 14a.
I tried my rear version at 15a and thought it felt a bit underpowered from what I am used to.
I then tried it at 17a and that brought it to life-a bit more responsive.
I also tried it at 20a but didn't feel much difference from 17a
Not sure how long it can handle 17a though.

 

[DuncanDK]

Done!

It was easy. You just have to forget what you previously learned and start all-over again

Hahaha, that tricky parameter P1

 

[MIKEONBIKE]

Hello! I'm new to the forum (and electrics)and I've been following this thread, as the Q100h setup described seems ideal to help us up the hills with our tandem. (A Dawes Double Edge) I've had wheel-building experience, but I'd be glad of some help with putting it all together!
I'm assuming I should order the lower rpm version of the motor as we need high torque (two people on board) rather than high speed?
We're regular riders, but reaching the age now where climbing gets harder. We're used to riding distances up to 60 miles or so and would want a battery with enough capacity to cope with this - so what size battery would you suggest and what other equipment to go with it?
Thanks in advance.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Hello! I'm new to the forum (and electrics)and I've been following this thread, as the Q100h setup described seems ideal to help us up the hills with our tandem. (A Dawes Double Edge) I've had wheel-building experience, but I'd be glad of some help with putting it all together!
I'm assuming I should order the lower rpm version of the motor as we need high torque (two people on board) rather than high speed?
We're regular riders, but reaching the age now where climbing gets harder. We're used to riding distances up to 60 miles or so and would want a battery with enough capacity to cope with this - so what size battery would you suggest and what other equipment to go with it?
Thanks in advance.

How many of those miles are hills to climb?

Correct, low rpm = high torque
You need a controller (and somewhere to put it)
An LCD
A PAS sensor and disque
A cutoff switch - use a HWBS on the rear brake wire

It is going to be hard for us to calculate battery usage for a tandem because the all up weight is much higher. Also pedalling efficiency is higher on a tandem, even older experienced riders produce more Watts than a lone pedelec rider. All that being a given I would say go for a larger battery, say a 17 Ah one.

36 spoke rear wheel OK with you? I would lace the motor into a strong 26" double walled MTB rim.
What width is the rear dropout? An 8 speed freewheel might not fit.

 

[Deere John]

I would consider middrive in case it would fit your tandem. A little more expensive but climbs mountains really great. If you feel that is an important factor. With hub motors you need to lower the assist if you have a looong uphill, otherwise you burn the controller. But it works good that too.

Personally I like both hub motors and middrives but they have their cons and pros so it is not a certain thing to choose.

 

[MIKEONBIKE]

I suppose in all honesty, the hills are no more than 10% of the total ride, even in quite a hilly area, but of course you always remember the hardest bits!
Our tandem is a Dawes Galaxy Twin, about 10 years old now (Sorry, the Double Edge was our previous tandem, a late night mental block!)
I'd decided already to go for a front hub motor, as per the original post, for the sake of simplicity. We've often been on tour with front panniers that weigh together probably around 10 Kilos, so I don't see the extra weight being a problem.

 

[MIKEONBIKE]

I would consider middrive in case it would fit your tandem. A little more expensive but climbs mountains really great. If you feel that is an important factor. With hub motors you need to lower the assist if you have a looong uphill, otherwise you burn the controller. But it works good that too.

Personally I like both hub motors and middrives but they have their cons and pros so it is not a certain thing to choose.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I suppose in all honesty, the hills are no more than 10% of the total ride, even in quite a hilly area, but of course you always remember the hardest bits!
Our tandem is a Dawes Galaxy Twin, about 10 years old now (Sorry, the Double Edge was our previous tandem, a late night mental block!)
I'd decided already to go for a front hub motor, as per the original post, for the sake of simplicity. We've often been on tour with front panniers that weigh together probably around 10 Kilos, so I don't see the extra weight being a problem.

The problem with assistance is you get lazy... If you want to go far with a small battery you turn the assistance down to level 0 everywhere except when you are climbing the steepest hills. In that case you would need a battery capable of 6 miles Why level 0 and not off? Because in level 0 you still have your speedo and odometer functions and trip time!

 

[wheeliepete]

Here's some links to BMS Battery parts to go with the Q100 motor.

https://bmsbattery.com/controller/827-s-ku65-250w15a-6mosfets-controller-without-led810.html

https://bmsbattery.com/parts/705-dual-hall-sensor-12-signals-easy-assembling-pas-ebike-kit.html

https://bmsbattery.com/parts/670-s-lcd3-lcd-meter-for-s-series-controlers-ebike-kit.html

https://bmsbattery.com/parts/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm-parts.html

https://bmsbattery.com/parts/459-hwbs-hidden-wire-brake-sensor-1pcs-parts.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/365-ku63-controller-case-ebike-kit.html

 

[sjpt]

We fitted a Woosh XF07 front drive kit to our (basic Viking) tandem. Somewhat underpowered (as Woosh pointed out when we bought it). It helps considerably on hills, but still leaves us still with quite a bit of work to do.

Having a kit rather than sourcing parts really helped for a first electric build; and Woosh were very helpful for advice and providing appropriate cable lengths. I'm not sure how much we could have saved with separate parts.

We reckon we are getting 30 miles on a 13aH 36v (468wH nominal) battery; mostly our rides are shorter, or we have a chance to recharge half way, so we haven't tested the 30 for sure. Hilly but not viciously so around here (Winchester). We mostly ride on assistance 2 of 5, and go up to 3 of 5 on the hills. Don't seem to get much extra oomph on 4/5 or 5/5 on hills, we are probably maxing out what the battery and controller can deliver even on 3.

We haven't had any front wheel slip issues (one possible problem with front hub motors) and there have been a few cases where the fact that it drives the front and we drive the back has helped.

 

[anotherkiwi]

We mostly ride on assistance 2 of 5, and go up to 3 of 5 on the hills. Don't seem to get much extra oomph on 4/5 or 5/5 on hills, we are probably maxing out what the battery and controller can deliver even on 3.

No, unless you have a controller which is set to speed control rather than power control? In the first case you are topping out on speed, in the second case assistance level 5 is 15 Amps, level 4 is 7.5 Amps and so on so you would feel the power doubling at each level change. It is hard to feel the difference in change on the lower levels but you definitely feel a difference between 3 and 5.

We haven't had any front wheel slip issues (one possible problem with front hub motors) and there have been a few cases where the fact that it drives the front and we drive the back has helped.

The longer wheelbase might have a lot to do with that as well as the weight of two people (even light) rather than one holding the front wheel down.

 

[MIKEONBIKE]

At this stage, as a newcomer to the forum, I didn't want to annoy everyone by getting too 'tecchie' about tandems! - but I've been reading up on this for a while and would have preferred a mid-drive, however the left side crossover drive (the long chain joining the 2 crank-sets together) fitted to most tandems appears to make this more difficult. As we mostly need 'a bit of help', we probably wouldn't use a high setting with a hub drive. Having said that, I thought the 350 watt rather than 250 watt motor would be better with the extra weight? I'd be grateful for advice about what we need and where to buy it. Thanks again all.

 

[sjpt]

Often almost the same motor gets given different labelled power ratings. The nominal labelled rating is a continuous rating, the max a motor gives is quite a lot more than the nominal. Technically a kit labelled 350w is not legal on road as a pedalec (UK)

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#frontbpmkit is a 350w front kit. You'll see a couple of pictures of (somebody else's) tandem conversion with that kit near the bottom of that page. I think their rear SWX 48v 250w is actually as powerful as the 350 BPM (??? they will advise).

I'd recommend Woosh from our experience, and they will give you plenty of advice too.

 

[sjpt]

It is hard to feel the difference in change on the lower levels but you definitely feel a difference between 3 and 5.

Thanks for the comment: I will try going direct from 3 to 5. We are typically going 8 mph on hills, less on steeper ones, so power is also limited by the torque/power the motor can provide at those speeds. I'd love to have a clear model in my head about the various interactions of battery/controller/settings/motor/speed.

The important thing is we just enjoy the extra we can do with the added motor.

 

[sjpt]

Just went out for a ride, brilliant light and colours.
I can confirm that on the steeper hills (down to 6-7 mph) going from 3 to 5 made hardly any difference. Plenty of extra on the nearly flat at 12-14 mph.

 

[Deere John]

I'd decided already to go for a front hub motor, as per the original post, for the sake of simplicity. We've often been on tour with front panniers that weigh together probably around 10 Kilos, so I don't see the extra weight being a problem.

ok, but that sounds good then. I rode my new Q100H a long ride today and it really is great. This motor + battery weighs not too much. My ebike is like an old push steel bike

One more thing that needs to pointen out. Simplicity you say. If that is important I also vote for the hub motor. They are very maintenance free. My previous motor lasted more than 15000 km before it finally gave up. No maintenance what so ever! Except battery

And it also releieves strain on the drive train. Since it takes off some load from the chain so to say. So compared with a middrive you can expect the drive train to last much much longer. That must be a good thing on a tandem also.

 

[MIKEONBIKE]

Often almost the same motor gets given different labelled power ratings. The nominal labelled rating is a continuous rating, the max a motor gives is quite a lot more than the nominal. Technically a kit labelled 350w is not legal on road as a pedalec (UK)

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#frontbpmkit is a 350w front kit. You'll see a couple of pictures of (somebody else's) tandem conversion with that kit near the bottom of that page. I think their rear SWX 48v 250w is actually as powerful as the 350 BPM (??? they will advise).

I'd recommend Woosh from our experience, and they will give you plenty of advice too.

 

[awol]

Another +1 for Woosh from me too. Great after sales help if needed.

 

[MIKEONBIKE]

Thanks all for further advice, I'm pretty OK generally with bike mechanics, but like many new to all this, the electronics seem more complicated than you expect - so I am very tempted to go with someone like Whoosh to begin with. I can see that the battery is by far the most expensive part of the package, so maybe I could experiment with upgrading other parts later.