'Stylish' hill-climbing electric folder for around a 1000??

[banbury frank]

Hi

The Dahon Jack can be converted very easy they are the best folders around


http://www.dahon.com/node/669/js

If you have the bike delivered to us in Banbury

Rear motor kit with 15AH rack mounted 48 volt battery Fitted and delivered Finished

on your supplied bike


This Kit is Limited to 15 MPH



£1495 BUT It will pull UP hills NO pedaling Range No pedaling 15 / 20 miles


Not Cheap but real If you don't Believe me come and try one in Banbury we are open 7 days a week

Frank

 

[ding-dong]

Hi Frank, VERY INTERESTING, I see the Dahon Jack is 26". What about the same conversion on the Boardwalk which is only 20" ???..I am very interested in the "no pedalling" bit as I am in my "twilight" years,--it's all downhill from now on (unfortunately it's uphill as well) especially where I live. Do you also do a DIY kit? Thanks. Eddie.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi I have given you a price for the kit fitted to a Bordwalk on this thread but only a 10 Ah battery I was thinking off the weight for a 15 AH battery extra £200
Even better power as geared down on 20 inch rim

Frank

 

[ding-dong]

Sorry, maybe a bit thick but I do'nt see a price. Eddie

 

[opaz]

It's Day 1 of my try out of the Fast4ward Edge... very kindly arranged by Mark of Ultra Motor.

So I freewheeled downhill into town...... it's quite steep, so it a bit scary on those little 20" wheels.

Oh, it's market day! The streets are thronging with people milling about chaotically. What an excellent chance to test out the idea that electric bikes can be unwieldy in crowded places, unless you can "switch power off" from the handlebars (rather than having to dismount to do it at the battery itself).

I have to say I didn't find the Fast4ward unwieldy at all. The power dies the moment you stop pedaling or apply the brake. So unless you decide to pedal directly at a pedestrian and for some reason carry on pedaling as you're about to hit them, it's hard to see how it's unwieldy or hazardous.

I was quite surprised at the number of compliments and admiring glances the bike got. There's no doubt this bike is a looker (in a satisfyingly 'butch' kind of way, obviously). And construction-wise it seems really solid and well put together. Everything works how it should. The folding and unfolding business is a doddle. It's clunk click three times and your done.

The big question (for me) was would it get me up the hill back to home. It's about a mile and a half long and rises by about 500 metres (that's a bit of a guess).. I'm not sure how to work out the gradient. Someone might have said 12% once, if that sounds feasible.

I have to say it was slightly more effort than my deceased 36 volter (the awful Sunlova) but I got there. Would I like to climb a hill three times that size on a Fast4ward? Probably, but I'd feel slightly fatigued afterwards. But that's not disasterous.. it's partly what bikes are for isn't it, to get a bit of exercise?

The thing that did alarm me though was how quickly the battery started to drain as I was using the bike on its full power setting (which being a lazy bugger, I had it on all the way up the hill). The handy little meter on the handlebars tells you, among other things, what's going on with the battery. At the base of the hill it was on 89%. When I got home it had dropped to 66%. That's about a fifth of the power used up in a mile and a half.

hmmm.. that could be a concern..

Would it make it to GFs house, which is 5 hilly miles away? You'd think yes, just about, according to the maths. But wait, the manual says 'don't let the battery drain below 20% or it'll damage it' (or 'bring great misfortune' as the Chiglish Sunlova manual would have put it).

Might still be ok tho. 1 and a half miles x 4 = 6. Given that hills go down as well as up, that would take me 12 miles! Or would it. I think I'll see how the 5 miler goes first...

 

[flecc]

A rise of 500 metres over one and a half miles would be about 20%, unlikely over that length of road. If it's 12% it would mean rise of 300 metres over the mile and a half. A decent 36 volt small wheel folder should handle the latter with a little pedal help and no problems. The former would be very hard work on any e-bike.

 

[Ultra Motor]

It's Day 1 of my try out of the Fast4ward Edge... very kindly arranged by Mark of Ultra Motor.

So I freewheeled downhill into town...... it's quite steep, so it a bit scary on those little 20" wheels.

Oh, it's market day! The streets are thronging with people milling about chaotically. What an excellent chance to test out the idea that electric bikes can be unwieldy in crowded places, unless you can "switch power off" from the handlebars (rather than having to dismount to do it at the battery itself).

I have to say I didn't find the Fast4ward unwieldy at all. The power dies the moment you stop pedaling or apply the brake. So unless you decide to pedal directly at a pedestrian and for some reason carry on pedaling as you're about to hit them, it's hard to see how it's unwieldy or hazardous.

I was quite surprised at the number of compliments and admiring glances the bike got. There's no doubt this bike is a looker (in a satisfyingly 'butch' kind of way, obviously). And construction-wise it seems really solid and well put together. Everything works how it should. The folding and unfolding business is a doddle. It's clunk click three times and your done.

The big question (for me) was would it get me up the hill back to home. It's about a mile and a half long and rises by about 500 metres (that's a bit of a guess).. I'm not sure how to work out the gradient. Someone might have said 12% once, if that sounds feasible.

I have to say it was slightly more effort than my deceased 36 volter (the awful Sunlova) but I got there. Would I like to climb a hill three times that size on a Fast4ward? Probably, but I'd feel slightly fatigued afterwards. But that's not disasterous.. it's partly what bikes are for isn't it, to get a bit of exercise?

The thing that did alarm me though was how quickly the battery started to drain as I was using the bike on its full power setting (which being a lazy bugger, I had it on all the way up the hill). The handy little meter on the handlebars tells you, among other things, what's going on with the battery. At the base of the hill it was on 89%. When I got home it had dropped to 66%. That's about a fifth of the power used up in a mile and a half.

hmmm.. that could be a concern..

Would it make it to GFs house, which is 5 hilly miles away? You'd think yes, just about, according to the maths. But wait, the manual says 'don't let the battery drain below 20% or it'll damage it' (or 'bring great misfortune' as the Chiglish Sunlova manual would have put it).

Might still be ok tho. 1 and a half miles x 4 = 6. Given that hills go down as well as up, that would take me 12 miles! Or would it. I think I'll see how the 5 miler goes first...

Great to read your update Opaz. I think we sent you a brand new bike and the battery won't be fully conditioned yet- so you shuold see range improve.

Enjoy riding!

 

[opaz]

flecc, yes that makes sense. I think where I live - Pecket Well in West Yorks, it's about 500 metres above sea level, so it's probably more like 300 metres above the town in the valley below - Hebden Bridge.

I'm typing this from GFs house in Sowerby. I reckon her house is maybe 200 metres above mine. I took a longer, hillier route, probably 7 or 8 miles. Obviously I made it. But she was under strict instructions to eschew the normal glass of wine and stay under the limit in case she had to come and get me... but I made it under my own steam. Just. There was one moment on a particularly steep bit when it started to struggle and I thought I was going to have to walk it up, but it managed just about, with me pedalling hard.

I'd recharged the battery up to 100% the previous night. When I reached the end of my journey tonight it was down 55%. So the performance had actually improved since the first outing..

Mark, thanks, I am enjoying it very much. I'm slightly confused about the battery maintenance regime though. Unfortunately I don't have the manual with me, but I recall it saying something like charge for 12 hours the first 2 or 3 times you charge it. But it also says don't carry on charging it once the light has gone green and it's full, which happens way before 12 hours is up, if your starting point is, say 65%.

opaz

 

[Ultra Motor]

flecc, yes that makes sense. I think where I live - Pecket Well in West Yorks, it's about 500 metres above sea level, so it's probably more like 300 metres above the town in the valley below - Hebden Bridge.

I'm typing this from GFs house in Sowerby. I reckon her house is maybe 200 metres above mine. I took a longer, hillier route, probably 7 or 8 miles. Obviously I made it. But she was under strict instructions to eschew the normal glass of wine and stay under the limit in case she had to come and get me... but I made it under my own steam. Just. There was one moment on a particularly steep bit when it started to struggle and I thought I was going to have to walk it up, but it managed just about, with me pedalling hard.

I'd recharged the battery up to 100% the previous night. When I reached the end of my journey tonight it was down 55%. So the performance had actually improved since the first outing..

Mark, thanks, I am enjoying it very much. I'm slightly confused about the battery maintenance regime though. Unfortunately I don't have the manual with me, but I recall it saying something like charge for 12 hours the first 2 or 3 times you charge it. But it also says don't carry on charging it once the light has gone green and it's full, which happens way before 12 hours is up, if your starting point is, say 65%.

opaz

HI Opaz,

Great to hear it just about made the trip!

Its OK to leave it on for 12hrs, even if the green light is on- so don't worry. the best way to look after the batteries is to keep them topped up!

All the best
Mark

 

[aseb]

Does the manual say the batteries need conditioning? It may take a few charges to get full capacity out of them.

 

[opaz]

Apparently they do aseb. So I gave it a good 12 hours last night.

This morning folded it into GFs hatchback. No need to flatten the back seats - it goes into the boot compartment... just.

Tonight I set off with 100% battery capacity down into Hebden Bridge again, freewheeling most of the way. Bimbled about a bit... 1 mile on the flat? ... got to destination. 96% left. Not bad. Folded up the bike. It's actually just one clunk click and then a twist (handlebars). Host says 'You're not bring that in here'. I say, well I'm not leaving it outside, it's worth a grand and if anything happens to it they've got my card details... so eventually it was allowed in..

Later... I set off back up the hill (1.25 miles - at, we've established, around 12% gradient or thereabouts).

Get home no problem. Battery capacity 67%. That's 29% usage up that hill. Or less if you factor in the 'battery must never go below 20%' thing.

I have to say in terms of torque up the hill, it really doesn't feel that much different from the Sunlova 36 volter.

It's a much smoother ride than the Sunlova (which isn't saying much, the Sunlova was a dog). But, importantly. you feel confident that it's not going to pack up on you prematurely, when it's late and there's no public transport.

But maybe 36 volts gives you more range in hilly terrain...

 

[opaz]

Took it about 13 miles yesterday, mostly flat but ending with the 1.25 miles, 12% gradient rise. Remaining battery power when I got home: 35%.

At the moment there only seems to be two modes - full throtle of nothing at all. Previously, the power has kicked in when you pedal, particularly when you start off. Now it doesn't seem to anymore, or at least I can't feel it. Or occasionally I think I might but then wonder if I'm imagining it. I'll try and detrmine if that is so tomorrow on a quiet flat piece of ground. But I'm wondering if it might be an intermittent syndrome...

An engineer friend was telling me - actually the voltage, 24 or 36, is quite irrelevant these days because batteries are so much more efficiently designed. It's more to do with the wattage. or rather the amperes per hour... my eyes started to glaze over at this point, which is a shame because I do wish I understood it properly.

I was overtaken on the main road by a 'proper cyclist', in lycra etc. He said a friendly 'hi' as he wizzed passed me. The difference in speed was slightly embarrasing. I do wonder if the gear ratios are quite right. It's difficult to get up a decent speed on the flat.

But then I caught up with him half way the hill back up to mine. He looked near to death, standing up and straining every sinew on those pedals. I casually cruised up to him, sitting comfortably in my seat, and said an ostentatious 'hi'. He looked puzzled. I said 'power-assisted'. We laughed. He stared at the bike, trying to work out where the engine was. I said 'it's like that harry enfield sketch, you know with the two jockeys'. He looked at me blankly. I gently rotated the throttle and pulled away..

 

[NRG]

Voltage does matter, with 24v to get the same power you need more current than 36v or 48v. Higher current means greater losses in the system and the need for heavier gauge wiring and larger Ah batteries or better quality (read more expensive) ones that can handle greater discharge currents. A 24v system can have up to 4 times the losses than a 48v one.

 

[indalo]

I was overtaken on the main road by a 'proper cyclist', in lycra etc. He said a friendly 'hi' as he wizzed passed me. The difference in speed was slightly embarrasing. I do wonder if the gear ratios are quite right. It's difficult to get up a decent speed on the flat.

But then I caught up with him half way the hill back up to mine. He looked near to death, standing up and straining every sinew on those pedals. I casually cruised up to him, sat comfortably in my seat, and said an ostentatious 'hi'. He looked puzzled. I said 'power-assisted'. We laughed. He stared at the bike, trying to work out where the engine was. I said 'it's like that harry enfield sketch, you know with the two jockeys'. He looked at me blankly. I gently rotated the throttle and pulled away..

I do so like a story with a happy ending Opaz. I don't think I've ever had a similar experience on my bike as the serious cyclists, whether in lycra or otherwise clad, just leave me for dead. Come to think of it, I'm probably quicker on my other bikes than I am on my ebike. I know which one is easier though!

Regards,
Indalo

 

[opaz]

Me too, Indalo, when I saw lycra boy going up my hill, I thought yes..

NRG, thanks for that explanation of the voltage question. I'm assuming that the 24 volt batteries powering 250 watt motors will have appropriate wiring and whatnot... to my non-technical mind having slightly thicker wires doesn't seem like a major construction expense .. but I know nothing about these things

I haven't taken the Fast4ward out for a while (been distracted by battle with parish council who are trying to evict me from my allotment). So it's been standing there with a full battery, unused, for about a week at least. I switched it on. Battery life 98%. Not bad..

Tonight it was absolutely p*****g down and I thought, hmmm... wonder how it likes the wet? The wretched Sunlova used to conk out in the wet.

I set off down the hill, wondering why I hadn't bothered wearing waterproof trousers. Took a diversion to a pub in the woods, up and down a bit, quite rugged in places (it seems fine in rugged terrain. No suspension, but nothing falls off or breaks, which is the main concern). Locked it up outside, still in the pouring rain. Had my pint, set off again into town. By this time I'd done maybe 3 miles, mostly downhill.

When I set off home again, the battery was at 89%. Happy with that. It got me back up the hill in the driving rain like a trouper. But, when I arrived home, it was down to 51%. I reckon in total I'd done about 5 miles, with the uphills balancing the downhills. My guess is that's a poorer battery performance than previously (but I'm not completely sure).

Wondering if the fact the bike had been standing there doing nothing for a while might have weakened the battery somehow?

But I feel myself getting quite attached to this bike. It passed the wet weather test with flying colours. Reliability is a major priority for me, cos I live up a big a hill. When I go out, if it's late and there's no public transport, I need to be sure I can get back. The Fast4ward, it appears, 'does what it says on the tin', whatever the conditions.

Whether or not 'what it says on the tin' is worth a grand is another matter. I can't really judge that until I've tried some other bikes.

I'm still bothered by the gear ratio of the fast4ward, I rarely use anything but the highest gear, and usually wish that there were higher ones available. Also, I don't know how the battery performance compares to similar models. I cheekily asked Wisper to let me trial the 806 foldable for free and they said yes, when they get some more in stock, which should be about now.

I have to say again a big thanks to Mark from Ultramotor for letting me trial the fast4ward for so long. It really is a nice bike and I'm very tempted.. But my partner won't agree until other bikes have been tried (we're thinking of buying one each) . She's far more level headed than me..

opaz

 

[indalo]

I set off down the hill, wondering why I hadn't bothered wearing waterproof trousers. Took a diversion to a pub in the woods, up and down a bit, quite rugged in places (it seems fine in rugged terrain. No suspension, but nothing falls off or breaks, which is the main concern). Locked it up outside, still in the pouring rain. Had my pint, set off again into town. By this time I'd done maybe 3 miles, mostly downhill.


opaz

One of the joys for me, as a leisure rider for the most part, is being able to take diversions which allow me to enjoy a beer in a pub garden I probably wouldn't have otherwise visited so I like your style Opaz.

I'm bound to say that I'm very impressed by the way Mark Loveridge promotes his product although the A2B machines are not really my cup of tea. Having seen the Metro model "in the flesh" recently in Cambridge, it is a substantial piece of kit and would probably answer the needs of a lot of cyclists in need of some electrical assistance. I thought it looked very impressive and purposeful.

Please keep us posted with your research as I always find it interesting to read how people gravitate to a particular machine in the end.

Regards,
Indalo

 

[Ultra Motor]

Me too, Indalo, when I saw lycra boy going up my hill, I thought yes..

NRG, thanks for that explanation of the voltage question. I'm assuming that the 24 volt batteries powering 250 watt motors will have appropriate wiring and whatnot... to my non-technical mind having slightly thicker wires doesn't seem like a major construction expense .. but I know nothing about these things

I haven't taken the Fast4ward out for a while (been distracted by battle with parish council who are trying to evict me from my allotment). So it's been standing there with a full battery, unused, for about a week at least. I switched it on. Battery life 98%. Not bad..

Tonight it was absolutely p*****g down and I thought, hmmm... wonder how it likes the wet? The wretched Sunlova used to conk out in the wet.

I set off down the hill, wondering why I hadn't bothered wearing waterproof trousers. Took a diversion to a pub in the woods, up and down a bit, quite rugged in places (it seems fine in rugged terrain. No suspension, but nothing falls off or breaks, which is the main concern). Locked it up outside, still in the pouring rain. Had my pint, set off again into town. By this time I'd done maybe 3 miles, mostly downhill.

When I set off home again, the battery was at 89%. Happy with that. It got me back up the hill in the driving rain like a trouper. But, when I arrived home, it was down to 51%. I reckon in total I'd done about 5 miles, with the uphills balancing the downhills. My guess is that's a poorer battery performance than previously (but I'm not completely sure).

Wondering if the fact the bike had been standing there doing nothing for a while might have weakened the battery somehow?

But I feel myself getting quite attached to this bike. It passed the wet weather test with flying colours. Reliability is a major priority for me, cos I live up a big a hill. When I go out, if it's late and there's no public transport, I need to be sure I can get back. The Fast4ward, it appears, 'does what it says on the tin', whatever the conditions.

Whether or not 'what it says on the tin' is worth a grand is another matter. I can't really judge that until I've tried some other bikes.

I'm still bothered by the gear ratio of the fast4ward, I rarely use anything but the highest gear, and usually wish that there were higher ones available. Also, I don't know how the battery performance compares to similar models. I cheekily asked Wisper to let me trial the 806 foldable for free and they said yes, when they get some more in stock, which should be about now.

I have to say again a big thanks to Mark from Ultramotor for letting me trial the fast4ward for so long. It really is a nice bike and I'm very tempted.. But my partner won't agree until other bikes have been tried (we're thinking of buying one each) . She's far more level headed than me..

opaz

Hi Opaz

Great to read your updates. Will need to arrange collection soon as have another 'test rider' lined up for the bike

All the best
Mark

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Me too, Indalo, when I saw lycra boy going up my hill, I thought yes..


I'm still bothered by the gear ratio of the fast4ward, I rarely use anything but the highest gear, and usually wish that there were higher ones available. Also, I don't know how the battery performance compares to similar models. I cheekily asked Wisper to let me trial the 806 foldable for free and they said yes, when they get some more in stock, which should be about now.

opaz

Hi Opaz sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but the 806s will not be here until early/mid August. The containers that arrived today did have some 805s but they have all been sold in advance. We will however have more in on the next delivery in 2/3 weeks.

All the best

David

 

[opaz]

Sure thing Mark, once again thanks for letting me trial it for so long. just email me when you want it back and I'll wipe it down and pack it up again. I kept every last piece of cardboard and bubble wrap it came with so hopefully you won't have to do much with it to send it out again..

One question.. I do pretty much have to use the Fast4ward on full throttle most of the time. The motor doesn't seem to kick in in response to hard pedaling. On the model I've got, if you need power you have to twist the hand grip. Is this normal or a malfunction? Or, an intermittent malfunction. As I think I've said upthread, the motor has seemed to respond to pedaling in some situations.

David, thanks for letting me know about the 806 situation. I was just about to email you again actually. Glad to hear business is brisk. I googled 'whisper 805' and the first link that comes up is the e-bikesdirect one:

Wisper 805 FE Folding Electric Bike - Fully Assembled

which seems to use the terms '806' and '805' interchangeably..

Indalo, I'm thinking of taking the fast4ward camping with me this weekend, to Glastonbury. I anticipate more beer related encounters.. it's all rather flat there though. <thinks.... scratches chin thoughtfully ...hmmm..> apart from the Tor itself of course... quickly banishes thought from mind..

opaz

 

[morphix]

Hi I am going to build a folder for my father in law using the Raleigh boardwalk

Raleigh Boardwalk Lite


Using a rear kit Adds 12 kilos to bike BUT with a 48 volt 10 AH battery It will climb Mountains with no pedaling twist and go

Kit £995 + fitting £150 + Bike

The other way is to fit an Ezee 350 watt kit £895 + fitting + bike Kit only 36 volt but will still pull like Train

Cyclezee Ltd - Home

Sorry about the budget But the Best Costs

Frank

Hi Frank, I'm curious did you end up converting a Raleigh Boadwalk Lite in the end? I have that bike on my short-list of possibles for my next bike conversion..I thought the aluminium frame might be a problem though for a front-wheel hub motor.. interested to hear your experiences/thoughts...