Struggling to choose

[C-Z]

Hello everyone,

I have been looking to buy a bike for a few months. I'm quite interested in the crank bikes and can see there are several mnuacturers who are offering them now. But comparing the specs of the Bosch bikes for example, there doesn't really seem to be much difference between most of the brands. Are there any that are better or worse than the others or will I be happy whichever one I choose ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[C-Z]

Oops sorry, I meant manufacturers not mnuacturers !

 

[Croxden]

I favour the Riese & Muller range having over 6000 miles on my Delite. To me it's worth the extra asked for the quality of the build and the components used.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Croxden.

Welcome to the Forum CZ!

Unlike the mass built Bosch bikes, each Riese Muller or blueLABEL bike is hand built in Frankfurt Germany to order. You will have to wait for a couple of weeks to get it but it will be built for you personally.

If you would like a test ride please drop me a line and I will put you in touch with a retailer near you.

All the best

David

 

[Tim]

If you want something with a touch more power, sophistication and range (up to 17Ah batteries compared to Bosch's 11Ah) on a better-equipped bike, you should consider something from the Kalkhoff electric bike range too. They're market leader in Germany and offer something for everyone - comfort bikes, long range tourers, compact bikes, stylish bikes, the lot. Not to mention the FOCUS electric mountain bikes.

There are several video from the States that do a really good job of reviewing some of the latest models
http://www.50cycles.com/blog/electric-bike-video-reviews/

 

[LEBC Tom]

CZ, welcome to the forum. What are you looking to do on your bike? Commute, leisure, or mountain bike off road?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

If you want something with a touch more power, sophistication and range (up to 17Ah batteries compared to Bosch's 11Ah) on a better-equipped bike, you should consider something from the Kalkhoff electric bike range too. They're market leader in Germany and offer something for everyone - comfort bikes, long range tourers, compact bikes, stylish bikes, the lot. Not to mention the FOCUS electric mountain bikes.

There are several video from the States that do a really good job of reviewing some of the latest models
http://www.50cycles.com/blog/electric-bike-video-reviews/

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I can confirm Riese and Muller bikes are high quality and offer a great back up service. We have people who use this system and get 50 or 60 miles range.

Most brands like Haibike (we stock these and they are nice bikes), Kalkhoff etc are owned by massive companies. Riese and Muller are independently owned and in my experience this results in outstanding service. I would definately recommend trying one out. For example they have sent us parts directly rather than directing you to the faulty part manufacturer/service centre like most other brands.

Also we do not have issues of customers waiting weeks for parts e.g. batteries. If this is ever the case we have offer a free loan bike.

We will also be announcing a special battery discount for people who have bought a Bosch powered bike off us, if a new one is needed in the first four years. That is how confident we are in the quality of Bosch batteries .This will apply to previous customers as well.

Good luck
Dave

 

[Kudoscycles]

C-Z.....Out of interest why do you favour crank drive? I sell both crank and hub drive so have no allegiance to either type. But I do think it important that customers buy crank drive for the right reasons and not because of the powerful marketing of Bosch.
I had a lady customer who tested a Kudos Sonata(BPM hub drive) against KTM Macina Bold (Bosch crank drive) ,the customer selected the Sonata because it suited what she wanted from the bike.
She loved the smoothness and style of the KTM but went for the Sonata because she wanted to ride the bike without inputting too much rider effort.
The point I am making is that these bikes are very personal,you are lucky that there is a lot of choice and opportunity to test ride bikes until you get the right one.
Nobody asked how much do you want to spend?
KudosDave

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

KudosDave is right you should try both types and a range of bikes to ensure you find your perfect ebike

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Thanks Croxden.

Welcome to the Forum CZ!

Unlike the mass built Bosch bikes, each Riese Muller or blueLABEL bike is hand built in Frankfurt Germany to order. You will have to wait for a couple of weeks to get it but it will be built for you personally.

If you would like a test ride please drop me a line and I will put you in touch with a retailer near you.

All the best

David

More than happy to read a good bit of marketing David... but really.

How is building a bike after its ordered by hand any different to lots of other Bosch bikes that are built by hand in Europe (ie KTM's) before or after the order?

Are you suggesting you get better quality because they wait for to order and then build it??

Mass build just means lots of people hand building bikes... no difference in quality, just more of them and therefore economies of scale and buying power might even suggest you get the same quality for less price if you go with a bigger brand that hand builds bikes in Europe... like I don't know, KTM for instance

Just hopefully putting a bit of balance on the discussion.

and I'd by no means suggest we make the perfect bike for this customer. That will be down for them to decide in discussion with their local retailer.

 

[Croxden]

I can only compare the Grace MX, Haibike XDuro All Mtn Pro & the R&M Delite with any extensive use, all Bosch powered, the Delite wins.

Better handling, build quality and design, the way it behaves on the road and trails is better than the other two. I can't compare the Birdy wIth other folders but I bet it rides better than any other, the Brompton will fold better but I spend more time riding than folding.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

just throwing this out there (mainly because I'm in work on a Saturday, and can't go riding because I'm racing tomorrow) ... read into it what you will.

You don't see many of Haibikes, normal bikes in the UK.

I wonder why that is??

 

[RobF]

just throwing this out there (mainly because I'm in work on a Saturday, and can't go riding because I'm racing tomorrow) ... read into it what you will.

You don't see many of Haibikes, normal bikes in the UK.

I wonder why that is??

An element of chicken and egg about it.

Very few dealers stock ordinary Haibikes, so few are sold.

If there is a person in charge of Haibike brand awareness in the UK, he/she seems to be concentrating on pushing Haibikes as electric bikes.

I understand Haibike distribution arrangements are going to change for next year.

The bikes are going to be distributed through Raleigh's large centre in Nottingham.

This will give ordinary Raleigh dealers, of which there are many, easier access to Haibike.

It will be interesting to see if many push Haibikes turn up in Nottingham.

My guess is they won't, and the brand will still concentrate heavily on ebikes.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hmmm! People mentioning hand-building as something that's desirable. Can anybody name an electric bike that isn't hand-built and say how it is built, if not by hand.

All the Chinese factories that I've visited were all hand-building bikes.

After 20 years as a Quality manager, I can say that hand-building is generally not good for quality. Systematic repeated and controlled processes are always better.

 

[Kudoscycles]

An element of chicken and egg about it.

Very few dealers stock ordinary Haibikes, so few are sold.

If there is a person in charge of Haibike brand awareness in the UK, he/she seems to be concentrating on pushing Haibikes as electric bikes.

I understand Haibike distribution arrangements are going to change for next year.

The bikes are going to be distributed through Raleigh's large centre in Nottingham.

This will give ordinary Raleigh dealers, of which there are many, easier access to Haibike.

It will be interesting to see if many push Haibikes turn up in Nottingham.

My guess is they won't, and the brand will still concentrate heavily on ebikes.

Rob...distribution of Haibike has been with Raleigh for over 2 years.
The problem of Haibike is that it is very off road biased,they are excellent bikes if that is your primary purpose and actually fairly priced as MTB's. But if you want a commuter bike and that is the majority of sales in our area ,they are very expensive compared to say KTM,look at the prices of their trekking models.
The use of the Yamaha motor should allow them to produce a step thru and diamond frame e-bike which should sell at about £1800 to max £2000,they would be more popular then.
KudosDave

 

[RobF]

Rob...distribution of Haibike has been with Raleigh for over 2 years.

It has, but my understanding is they were not previously using the distribution centre in Nottingham for Haibike.

 

[Emo Rider]

Hmmm! People mentioning hand-building as something that's desirable. Can anybody name an electric bike that isn't hand-built and say how it is built, if not by hand.

All the Chinese factories that I've visited were all hand-building bikes.

After 20 years as a Quality manager, I can say that hand-building is generally not good for quality. Systematic repeated and controlled processes are always better.

I could not agree more. I was a quality technician for a major manufacturer. We worked to strict ISO9000 and ISO14001 standards and produced products know world wide for high quality. I am always pleased with the consistant high quality and build standards of the Bosch and Yamaha powered Haibikes. I have witnessed increasingly improving quality in Chinese built bikes and systems. When you visit these Chinese factories is it obvious they they are using ISO 9000 controlled processes?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

When you visit these Chinese factories is it obvious they they are using ISO 9000 controlled processes?

Some of the battery, controller, motor and component factories have state of the art manufacturing equipment and systems, as good as you'll find anywhere. I haven't seen that in the bike assembly factories. I can imagine that that is similar with European brands.

Personally, I don't believe that ISO9000 does much for product quality. For that you need proper quality control based on defect avoidance planning and closed loop defect control systems, which aren't specific requirements of ISO9000 unless it's changed since 2003.

 

[Emo Rider]

Some of the battery, controller, motor and component factories have state of the art manufacturing equipment and systems, as good as you'll find anywhere. I haven't seen that in the bike assembly factories. I can imagine that that is similar with European brands.

Personally, I don't believe that ISO9000 does much for product quality. For that you need proper quality control based on defect avoidance planning and closed loop defect control systems, which aren't specific requirements of ISO9000 unless it's changed since 2003.

Yes it did with a high emphasis put on a document control system and training recertification to back up quality, safety, production and environmental controls. This greatly improved the systems you refer to. Companies that are embracing this type of manufacturing approach are reaping the benefits. Something that manufacturing in China is slow coming to terms with.