Stratospheric prices

[Woosh]

The key is to make less bikes than you can sell,

that's very hard. The problem is how long you are going to keep the frame versus how long the product is staying at the top. Let's say you make a frame for motor X. If production of X is stopped in 5 years, you only have less than 4 for that frame because sales of that motor would have flopped long before X is stopped. If you plan to produce too few, your push up your tool-up cost. By the time you fully understand the support cost of X, it's time to move to the next best motor.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

that's very hard. The problem is how long you are going to keep the frame versus how long the product is staying at the top. Let's say you make a frame for motor X. If production of X is stopped in 5 years, you only have less than 4 for that frame because sales of that motor would have flopped long before X is stopped. If you plan to produce too few, your push up your tool-up cost. By the time you fully understand the support cost of X, it's time to move to the next best motor.

I completely agree, when the market is in such flux as it is now between in and on frame batteries a developer needs make certain frame costs are amortised quickly, even in a single season. That’s why it’s imperative to keep on top of technology, we have been speaking to Shimano about the 5,6,7 and 8000 series motors for nearly a year now, along with new battery options. Our 2019 frames are already being prototyped in time for Eurobike at the end of June. As I said, it’s tough.

 

[Chainring]

Funnily enough, I have just been trawling through the ALIBaba site to see what sort of electric bikes are available. There is quite a range, but none match exactly what I would like. I thought of posting on here to see if people were interested in listing exactly what they wanted in an ebike. As far as prices go, I could buy a bike from Fenetic Bikes for about £700. It is almost identical to the Woosh Santana I bought five years ago for £625, so bikes at a reasonable price are still available. I ended up building my own because nothing was on the market that suited me. It has cost about £1000 over three years, or about £6 per week for my transport to work etc. (10,000 miles so far). Any takers on the 'Bike I would really like'? A hand-drawn picture would do, with all the features clearly marked. Radpower seem to have some good models, and sell direct like Woosh, Juiced Bikes etc.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I want one that looks like this:




If it had air conditioning that would be perfect! And about 1000 W at the pedal

 

[Woosh]

I could buy a bike from Fenetic Bikes for about £700. It is almost identical to the Woosh Santana I bought five years ago for £625, so bikes at a reasonable price are still available.

you make an interesting point. I know they are still available. The problem is the running costs relentlessly go up year after year. If we continued selling the Santana, the lower exchange rate would force us to price it at £699. We moved the components up a notch, 13AH battery instead of 10AH, disc brakes instead of V-brakes, SWX02 motor instead of SWXH, better crankset, stem, handlebars, propstand etc we sell the Santana2 competitively at £899 instead of £699 for the Santana specs. That helps pay the wages.

 

[Russelliow]

Bicycles have always been surprisingly expensive, add on to that a load of up to date batteries (something else that will never be cheap) and you have an even more expensive bicycle.

 

[Chainring]

you make an interesting point. I know they are still available. The problem is the running costs relentlessly go up year after year. If we continued selling the Santana, the lower exchange rate would force us to price it at £699. We moved the components up a notch, 13AH battery instead of 10AH, disc brakes instead of V-brakes, SWX02 motor instead of SWXH, better crankset, stem, handlebars, propstand etc we sell the Santana2 competitively at £899 instead of £699 for the Santana specs. That helps pay the wages.

No complaints about your company! I kept the handlebars from my Santana because they were so comfortable! (And the rack). The Rio LS in your range is about the nearest to what I would like, but not those tyres!

​

Seeing this bike from Rad Power made me think of what might be available. It has welded lugs for a front rack. Not a new idea, I realise, but so useful, and so much better than clamps, brackets, cable ties etc. The rest of my wish list would be:

Front motor, giving more choice in the transmission options.

2-legged centre stand.

Suspension seat post.

Steering stabiliser. (Spring!)

26 inch wheels.

Riser handlebars.

Suspension forks.

Disc brakes.

Mudguards. I don't think this is such an unusual desire. I can find various bikes with some of these options, but no bike with them all. Juicy Bikes have the Roller, which is close. I found this one on Alibaba:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EN15194-city-riding-electric-bike-
bicycle_60211726237.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.328.5c2ac8c0thdczv
and this one: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2018-cheap-factory-supply-OEM-supported_60740547056.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.45.184a401dVg5Qdf
I notice the minimum order of thirty bikes, so I can see what dealers are up against. A lot of money tied up. Anyone else with a bike they would like but cannot find? I'm sure all the dealers on here would be grateful for any input!

 

[Chainring]

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EN15194-city-riding-electric-bike-bicycle_60211726237.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.328.5c2ac8c0thdczv
I think this link may work..........

 

[2Lazy]

I don’t think ebikes are particularly expensive when you consider the cost of lithium batteries and motors etc. Yes you can save a bit of money by building an ebike yourself but few people have the time, inclination and skills to do it. Most people want an off the shelf product with a guarantee and after sales service etc.

It’s the same with computers. I’ve worked for many years in an IT related field and I built a PC as part of my undergraduate degree. So I could quite easily build my own computer and save some cash if I wanted to. I never have though because, well.....I just can’t be arsed with the hassle. I’d rather spend what little free time I have doing other things and just buy a ready made solution from Apple or Dell, even if it costs me more.

 

[soundwave]

I don’t think ebikes are particularly expensive when you consider the cost of lithium batteries and motors etc. Yes you can save a bit of money by building an ebike yourself but few people have the time, inclination and skills to do it. Most people want an off the shelf product with a guarantee and after sales service etc.

It’s the same with computers. I’ve worked for many years in an IT related field and I built a PC as part of my undergraduate degree. So I could quite easily build my own computer and save some cash if I wanted to. I never have though because, well.....I just can’t be arsed with the hassle. I’d rather spend what little free time I have doing other things and just buy a ready made solution from Apple or Dell, even if it costs me more.

here you go get ur gold bars out and they will ship outside the usa for a 50k plus system
https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/peak/quad_xeon/customize.php

 

[Woosh]

here you go get ur gold bars out and they will ship outside the usa for a 50k plus system
https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/peak/quad_xeon/customize.php

SW, your electricity bill would make me weep.

 

[Chainring]

Well, I was reading the post on anti-dumping taxes, which is not very cheering. The man from Wisper mentions he intends to build bikes in this country, and speaks of giving customers the choice of what they would like, then building it for them. I found this:
http://www.freyebikes.com/City-electric-bikes/FR-TDF02Z.htm
which is intended for dealers, but gives all the options to end up with exactly what you want. The only thing missing for me is welded mountings on the front of the frame for luggage attachment, and a welded/threaded mounting on the frame for the steering stabiliser. If all these options are on the frame from the beginning, you can choose as much or as little as you want/need. It was also mentioned in the anti-dumping post that the big european manufacturers may be angling for central motors only to be available. What a horrible thought.

 

[Nealh]

SW, your electricity bill would make me weep.

It probably makes one of his neighbour's weep .

 

[Crockers]

SW makes most people weep

 

[2Lazy]

here you go get ur gold bars out and they will ship outside the usa for a 50k plus system
https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/peak/quad_xeon/customize.php

Nice. If you were into gaming you could build yourself an awesome system. TBH all I really need these days is my iPad. I have a MacBook Pro but I can go months without even switching it on.

 

[soundwave]

cant game on that the fps would be terrible lol games and multi core cpus dont mix well better to have less at a higher clock rate like 5ghz

if you dont use it then sell it as it will loose money every day its sat there and not good for the batt also.

these look nice.
https://www.johnlewis.com/microsoft-surface-book-2-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd-15-pixelsense-display-geforce-gtx-1060-silver/p3414651?sku=237337900&s_kwcid=2dx92700033660613690&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclid=CjwKCAjwo87YBRBgEiwAI1LkqeDmZYYX238crT1v8ME14dJd1RWce2MazlYPv945g2t9wXjeVzyeQBoCON4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The only thing missing for me is welded mountings on the front of the frame for luggage attachment, and a welded/threaded mounting on the frame for the steering stabiliser.

Hi Chainring, good idea re the luggage. What is a steering stabiliser?

All the best, David

 

[flecc]

these look nice.
https://www.johnlewis.com/microsoft-surface-book-2-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd-15-pixelsense-display-geforce-gtx-1060-silver/p3414651?sku=237337900&s_kwcid=2dx92700033660613690&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclid=CjwKCAjwo87YBRBgEiwAI1LkqeDmZYYX238crT1v8ME14dJd1RWce2MazlYPv945g2t9wXjeVzyeQBoCON4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I've got all that and a lot more on my desktop, and with a much larger screen for half the price!

And it always works, unlike many of Microsoft's unreliable Surface laptops.
.

 

[Woosh]

Hi Chainring, good idea re the luggage. What is a steering stabiliser?

All the best, David

he means something like this:

 

[flecc]

What is a steering stabiliser?

It's a spring device that stops the front wheel flopping about at rest but still allows normal steering, as Woosh's illustration.

Popular on the continent on practical bikes.
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