Storck Raddar

[indalo]

Having just looked over Storck's British website, (not the most informative or intuitive) I note they claim a figure of 60 Nm of torque from their motor. Does anyone know how that is measured? Is there any industry standard for such claims and at what point is the measurement taken?

Not all manufacturers elect to publish such figures but Storck's claim is the highest torque figure I have seen among those bikes where figures are published. I'm at a loss to understand how 60 Nm of torque is produced from a 26V 250W apparently legal motor which, for comparison, exceeds the Bosch system by about 20%. Moreover, there seems to be a general concensus among ebike producers that 36V systems are the way forward, presumably better in a variety of ways than those older 26V systems.

In summary, I have a real difficulty making the component list on their Raddar models add up to a 3 grand ebike. I mean, they don't even include an expensive, high-end suspension fork, relying on fat tyres for their suspension medium. What am I missing here? Has the company found a secret that enables massive torque in a legal motor yet can still manage huge distances on a charged battery?

Indalo

 

[Davanti]

Having just looked over Storck's British website, (not the most informative or intuitive) I note they claim a figure of 60 Nm of torque from their motor. Does anyone know how that is measured? Is there any industry standard for such claims and at what point is the measurement taken?

Not all manufacturers elect to publish such figures but Storck's claim is the highest torque figure I have seen among those bikes where figures are published. I'm at a loss to understand how 60 Nm of torque is produced from a 26V 250W apparently legal motor which, for comparison, exceeds the Bosch system by about 20%. Moreover, there seems to be a general concensus among ebike producers that 36V systems are the way forward, presumably better in a variety of ways than those older 26V systems.

In summary, I have a real difficulty making the component list on their Raddar models add up to a 3 grand ebike. I mean, they don't even include an expensive, high-end suspension fork, relying on fat tyres for their suspension medium. What am I missing here? Has the company found a secret that enables massive torque in a legal motor yet can still manage huge distances on a charged battery?

Indalo

What do Storck Raddar riders experience?

Don

 

[jazper53]

Or they are just exaggerated claims to some how justify the price ?

 

[Cakey]

I do agree with your statement. The fact I own one does not mean i am a fanboy ,I wonder where the numbers come from. Costs are a strange thing . Why are cervelo, pinarello and storck road bikes 10k plus. For some of us, this makes a huge difference. Most bike riders cannot tell the difference between a race bike and a sportive set up.
The raddar frame is the standard mountain bike frame. I know from riding and owning many bikes that the geometry of the frame is very important. For me most ebike frames are pretty naff frames.
Hence the choice.
The 60nm torque quote is a strange one. I think storcks marketing is on overload. Maybe Ian or Trevor may have more info.
All I know it climbs like a mountain goat, or I am just super fit

 

[NRG]

Some of the Crystalyte motors produce 60nm, these being direct drive like the Storck. However, this is typically produced as very low RPM where efficiency is incredibly low IE <30% so most of the battery energy is being used to produce heat. A more practical real world figure would I guess be closer to 25nm in use....but this also depends on how much current you let the motor pull from the battery, more = more torque...

You cant really compare these figures to geared motors as the gear ratios act as a torque multiplier, so say an eZee motor at 45nm will probably pull harder due to the reduction gearing built in and the Bosch system uses the bikes gears...

 

[Davanti]

...All I know it climbs like a mountain goat, or I am just super fit

This is the sort of information that I can get my head round! I'm afraid all the facts and figures about torque, wiggly amp measurements etc., go straight over my head ... and what isn't above my head, is below my dignity ...! If I wish to count above 10, I am obliged to remove my shoes & socks.

The answers to "How was it for you?" are the only measurements I can compute.

So come on you Storck Raddar riders: How was it for you?

 

[flecc]

In summary, I have a real difficulty making the component list on their Raddar models add up to a 3 grand ebike. I mean, they don't even include an expensive, high-end suspension fork, relying on fat tyres for their suspension medium.

Which equals a better bike for road use in the view of many experienced cyclists, including myself.

Quality brings high prices which in any consumer product brings in the law of diminishing returns. The more exclusive the product, the higher the price, the fewer that get sold, so the higher the margin has to be on each one sold.

It's pointless to look for constituent value in such products, whether Storck, Flyer, Rolls-Royce, Maybach* or Rolex. Indeed such products can be inferior in certain respects, my cheap wireless linked atomic clock corrected watch keeps better time than the Rolex and doesn't even need winding, and time keeping is what they are for.

* Discontinued.

 

[Davanti]

... It's pointless to look for constituent value in such products, whether Storck, Flyer, Rolls-Royce, Maybach* or Rolex. Indeed such products can be inferior in certain respects, my cheap wireless linked atomic clock corrected watch keeps better time than the Rolex and doesn't even need winding, and time keeping is what they are for.

* Discontinued.

Yes, flecc, but what a good feeling to have something that looks and feels great, because you can!

Okay, okay ... I'm shallow!

 

[flecc]

Yes, flecc, but what a good feeling to have something that looks and feels great, because you can!

I agree, that's where their value for money exists, in perception, not constituents.

I love my bejewelled, gold leaf trimmed dustbin, puts the neighbours in their place.
.

 

[eddieo]

I tried one on Saturday, not a great test as small circuit, it seemed willing enough and a nicely finished bike. I also tried the AVE Bosch powered bike and this felt more eager to me. I also thought the motor/rear wheel felt very heavy, and the bike lacked balance, but saying that not many bother to pick an e bike up.....

what I simply don't understand is the Storke claim that it is an in house motor distributed under license to other companies....If this is the case why are they using the 25 v version with small battery while everyone else uses the 36 v with a choice of batteries. Cube, Green mover, and now Specialized all use the Go SwissDrive, which looks identical...This is a powerful motor that comes in various guises, both legal and high speed versions

Motor - GO SwissDrive

anyway its a nice bike, I would need a proper test ride with a few hills, also would like to know what the range is with the small battery....

You can get a step through Bosch AVE bike @ £1600, and one I liked for £1999 I just love the feel of this system. On the subject of Nm, I know Bosch reduced the power as it was causing problems with drive train as to powerful, but it still feels more powerful to me then the storke

 

[NRG]

This is the sort of information that I can get my head round! I'm afraid all the facts and figures about torque, wiggly amp measurements etc., go straight over my head ... and what isn't above my head, is below my dignity ...! If I wish to count above 10, I am obliged to remove my shoes & socks.

The answers to "How was it for you?" are the only measurements I can compute.

So come on you Storck Raddar riders: How was it for you?

Aha! but it tells you nothing! Unless you where there riding with Cakey then how can you relate to it?.... How steep was the hill? How fit is the Rider? What speed did he climb at? How heavy is he? etc etc etc etc etc....

 

[flecc]

You can get a step through Bosch AVE bike @ £1600, and one I liked for £1999 I just love the feel of this system.

I've always viewed crank drives and hub motors as rather different things Eddie, I don't think much useful comparison can be made. I'd be inclined to say that the Bosch and Storck systems are both very good, but best suited to different purposes.

Rather like trying to compare a Jeep Wrangler and a Jaguar. The Jeep is good over the rough stuff but a Jag is better on the road.

 

[funkylyn]

Aha! but it tells you nothing! Unless you where there riding with Cakey then how can you relate to it?.... How steep was the hill? How fit is the Rider? What speed did he climb at? How heavy is he? etc etc etc etc etc....

Yes, good point, as ever its personal experience and choice, but still nice to hear other peoples actual findings as opposed to just reading facts and figures and maybe forming opinions based on these, that could be wrong.

When I read the facts and spec about any bike I wait until I have tried it myself before forming any opinion.......which again is going to vary from anothers, and so it goes on.........interesting though.

Generally though, I find that I have really liked most of the bikes that I have tried .....the hard bit is always weighing up the pros and cons of each model to decide on the one with the least cons for your own personal requirements.

Basically I suppose I just love riding electric bikes

Lynda

 

[eddieo]

I've always viewed crank drives and hub motors as rather different things Eddie, I don't think much useful comparison can be made. I'd be inclined to say that the Bosch and Storck systems are both very good, but best suited to different purposes.

Rather like trying to compare a Jeep Wrangler and a Jaguar. The Jeep is good over the rough stuff but a Jag is better on the road.

But they feel very similar. The reason the Storke feels so good is because it performs like a crankdrive........Refined, quite and powerful, nothing like your average hub motored bike.

 

[flecc]

But they feel very similar. The reason the Storke feels so good is because it performs like a crankdrive........Refined, quite and powerful, nothing like your average hub motored bike.

That's why I like it's concept Eddie. In many areas where the steepest hills don't exist, a crank drive isn't necessary. A direct drive like the Raddar is ideal then, simplest and least complex, no excess chain/sprocket wear problems, no internal gears to wear and fail like the SB motors and much more silent than them. Yet still with the high torque to handle the odd very steep hill that might be encountered, albeit with high current drain but which doesn't matter if it's only occasional.

 

[eddieo]

Quality brings high prices which in any consumer product brings in the law of diminishing returns. The more exclusive the product, the higher the price, the fewer that get sold, so the higher the margin has to be on each one sold.

It's pointless to look for constituent value in such products, whether Storck, Flyer, Rolls-Royce, Maybach* or Rolex. Indeed such products can be inferior in certain respects, my cheap wireless linked atomic clock corrected watch keeps better time than the Rolex and doesn't even need winding, and time keeping is what they are for.

Hoy! I love my Rolex, that it costs more then a Swiss flyer X series is inconsequential...if you want accurate time look at your phone!lol

 

[benjy_a]

Hoy! I love my Rolex, that it costs more then a Swiss flyer X series is inconsequential...if you want accurate time look at your phone!lol

I think that was Flecc's point...it's not all about utility. Most of us buy products from the heart as well as the head, I know I do!

 

[flecc]

Hoy! I love my Rolex, that it costs more then a Swiss flyer X series is inconsequential...if you want accurate time look at your phone!lol

But my mobile phone can't tell the time, it's one of the unusual ones that's used for phone calls.

 

[mountainsport]

I LIKE THAT,I LIKE THAT!!!! I Want More LOL.
Yet again money does not grow on trees but a tree grows on money(JUST MADE THAT UP).

 

[GaRRy]

But my mobile phone can't tell the time, it's one of the unusual ones that's used for phone calls.

What a novel concept