still not to sure what to make of bosch ebike system

[Trevormonty]

have been trying to get to grips with my bosch powered ktm macinna active line
have now covered 130 miles.
shortish none to steep hills I can do ok in sport.
on a road that rises slightly regardless of going from tour to sport and whatever gear I seemed to be stuck at 11mph?
saterday on my subway one tdz mid drive loaded with panniers and locks went to open air market and returned with bulging panniers this is a 25 mile round trip with 16 very hilly miles sport mode.
not sure I could do the same trip on the bosch which is lighter 20.4kg but 50nm vs 60nm tdz

I tried a local hill yesterday about 1.5 miles which rises fairly steeply near the end in turbo but did not make it to the top,
range however 48 miles 2 bars showing out of 5 average speed a lowly 9.3mph

Most Active drive bikes should easily climb in lowest gear around 7mph. I suspect you are not in lowest gear or your bike has to high a gear ratio.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

This is all about helping the customer make an informed choice on what's best for them.

totally agreed.
I usually chat with the customer for about 10 minutes before making a suggestion.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

totally agreed.
I usually chat with the customer for about 10 minutes before making a suggestion.

and clearly you'd never suggest a Bosch bike, because you don't understand them and can't sell them.

 

[Woosh]

and clearly you'd never suggest a Bosch bike, because you don't understand them and can't sell them.

No, it's not that.
I don't stock them but BikeBase 100 yards up the road stock Haibikes - I direct the customers there.
so there are plenty of choice.

 

[footpump]

thanks for input
I weigh 94 kg
the battery output/power meter on the intuvia display is quite usefull
on the flat in eco upping the cadence a bit to the 15mph cutoff I can see the power gradually increases.
the gearing 11-34 lower cogs theres quite a big difference in ratios 23/26/30/34 not sure what is best to use regards anything hilly.

not sure I understand fully the (torque sensing bit) as regards how the system knows how much pressure I am putting on the peddles I can understand rpm/cadence however.
also starting off from rest or on an incline I up the mode to sport or turbo to assist in getting me moving not sure if that's best method ?

my cadence is poor but out of interest have got one of these of fleabay,
but find I will have to make a different method of fixing due to brake pipe etc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361692358888?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

on the second picture of the cyclist ,that's how I feel going uphill
thanks all

ps I am in 26 cog at rear 18t front for hills

 

[chris_n]

So you still have two more gears to go at then, big difference between 26 and 34 teeth.
You might well find with all of the electrical noise that your wireless computer won't work.

 

[Artstu]

No, it's not that.
I don't stock them but BikeBase 100 yards up the road stock Haibikes - I direct the customers there.
so there are plenty of choice.

I got to have another go on a Woosh CD last week, what a truly awful experience it was in comparison to my Bosch Classic KTM, I was very glad to get back on my bike I can tell you.

 

[Woosh]

can you remember which one?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

the physics is simple: the work that the user must input into a Bosch system is 25%. Work = power * time.
Where:
Power = torque * rotational speed, (power in Watts, torque in NM and rotational speed in radian/s).

So the faster you rotate, the lower the torque (less effort on the pedals) you have to input in order to produce the work.

Work has little to do with it. The work to climb a hill is more or less the same whatever speed you go up it. The only thing you need to get up a hill is torque. Pesumably, OP is trying as hard as he can, so the only way to get more torque is with lower gearing.

 

[Artstu]

can you remember which one?

hmm, a plain black one dating back around 3 years I think.

 

[EddiePJ]

It is all about the cadence and I give this advice to all my customers. I use to be in triathelon club and learned about the value of higher cadence on a regular road bike. Maintaining the same speed, cycling at an 80 to 90 rpm cadence in the right gear results in a lower heart rate than cycling slower in a gear too high. I can achieve greater range using a high cadence and use the the rpm display on my Yamaha system to measure my peddaling speed.

Like you, I'll take high cadence any day of the week over low cadence, especially for hill climbing.

High cadence, especially if used in conjunction with using a slightly lower gear than is perhaps required, uses far less energy than slow cadence.

I see no reason that this wouldn't transfer across to a Bosch powered ebike, where high cadence, is going make for more efficient use of the motor, so saving on battery consumption.

The above is really evident when I am out on group rides on the analogue mtb, when my recovery time is significantly less than anyone other than my regular riding partner. He was a semi pro road rider, and somehow manages just to maintain the same smooth flow of pace over the length of a whole ride, never changing or seemingly deviating, but somehow adjusting things to the pace of others by using his gears accordingly, and pulling them along. It is quite a skill that he seems to have.

In respect of eMTB's and hill climbing, it surprises me just how many people that don't seem to know how to ride efficiently. I see this every time that I let anyone try one of my bikes, or when out on rare group rides. The norm seems to be that people ride in a gear that is too high, and compensate this by using a power setting that is higher than should be required. It makes me cringe, watching people almost grind their way up hills, which puts more strain on everything, and is less efficient.

 

[Artstu]

Work has little to do with it. The work to climb a hill is more or less the same whatever speed you go up it. The only thing you need to get up a hill is torque. Pesumably, OP is trying as hard as he can, so the only way to get more torque is with lower gearing.

I'm not convinced by what you're saying. It's programmed to respond in a certain way based on cadence and pressure, so learning to get the best from it is about watching that power scale and giving it what it wants for the best results power wise.

 

[Woosh]

hmm, a plain black one dating back around 3 years I think.

This is my newest CD bike:

http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/first-look-at-the-new-woosh-fb-six.28010/

 

[nashdm2]

This power scale you guys talk about, is this also on the Nyon unit as I dont recall it being on mine when I had it?

 

[Artstu]

This is my newest CD bike:

http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/first-look-at-the-new-woosh-fb-six.28010/

Oh. I bet you're too late for the fat bike fad. and is it actually any better than your older CD versions?

 

[Woosh]

Oh. I bet you're too late for the fat bike fad. and is it actually any better than your older CD versions?

they'd say 'Tōngguò jìshù jìnbù' in Tianjin ('Vorsprung durch Technik'). 3 years is a long time in bike technology. At the time, the most expensive Woosh bike sold for £749 with 15AH battery, that did not leave me with much money to spend on brakes and fork etc. Now the Rio MTB sells for £1,049 with 13AH battery, the mechanical bike is visibly better.

 

[GLJoe]

This power scale you guys talk about, is this also on the Nyon unit as I dont recall it being on mine when I had it?

I think its in the 'ride' display mode.
On the intuvia, its there all the time.
I don't recall seeing a power meter scale on my friends purion display though,so maybe they've omitted it from that one (or maybe there was some special button pressing you had to do that I couldn't find!)

 

[BigG]

You need to spin more with Bosch... look at the little black bar chart on the side of the display, if this isn't at the top, the Bosch motor isn't helping you at its max potential. Change down a few gears and go at a faster cadence (not more power) just spin and see if it works.

I realise this conversation has gone on a long way from the advice given in your posting.... This was never explained to me when I got my last Bosch powered KTM (The dealer has now given up selling bikes) .... I will certainly try it when I'm next out... at least I know know what cadence means and I need to "spin" more. Thanks

 

[anotherkiwi]

@footpump your thread is very intriguing because I thought that it was impossible to stall a bosch powered bike. I have never had a ride on a torque sensor bike, mine have all been plain old PAS. I have almost stalled the GSM once, before changing my gearing, on a hill which is hard to walk up and even drive a car up if you aren't in the right gear (1st). Correct gearing is the answer to your problem I feel. Now that I have a double chainwheel on the front I can climb anything, seated, including hills that are scary to ride back down And I spin at between 70 and 90 RPM at all times. Any faster then my controller cuts the power.

 

[EddiePJ]

18t front for hills

That would the equivalent to a 45t regular size sprocket.

It could be worth you changing to either a 16t (40t equiv) or even 15t (37t equiv)

Or perhaps investigate buying a rear cassette with lower gearing, say one with a low range of 36t.

One or even both of the above changes, could make a significant and welcome difference for you.