SPOKES

Georgew

Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2016
152
185
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Fife Scotland
Galvanised mild steel has a much higher fatigue resistance than stainless. I would have thought they would last the longest. Is mild steel strong enough? I would have thought so.
Best to have a look at some of these threads where the subject of spokes, fatigue and build have been done to death. Lots of good stuff here by people who have built wheels for a living and are very knowledgeable.

http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=104884&p=998883&hilit=spoke+fatigue#p998883

http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=103903&p=986447&hilit=spoke+fatigue#p986447
http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102872&p=971871&hilit=spoke+fatigue#p971871
http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102007&p=959966&hilit=spoke+fatigue#p959966
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
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Stainless steel is notorious in the sailing world for suddenly giving way.
It suffers from crevice corrosion, which might be what is occurring at the J bend.
 
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mike killay

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Feb 17, 2011
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Georgew.
Thanks for those links, very interesting.
Thinking back, I never had trouble with British built vehicle spokes.
 

Georgew

Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2016
152
185
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Fife Scotland
I've never had to give spokes much thought as in over forty years of cycle-camping I've never broken one....discounting the time I fell into rail tracks in Troyes and broke my rear hub. For that time though I loaded up with tent, all my camping gear and tools and spares and every year cycled from Belgium or Calais down to the south of France before criss-crossing the country and heading north to Belgium again. Over two months loaded cycling and pedalling every day and without any spoke breakage. I always carried a few though but used them on other people's bikes.
 

DouglasXK

Pedelecer
Oct 9, 2016
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Oxford
Blackgates Engineering (blackgates.co.uk) supply 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 10BA washers made from brass or steel in packs of 100 for £4. Some small stainless available M3 to M6.
If the J-end isn't sat properly in the hub hole this could place pressure on the bend and cause a break.
Graham at Tiller Cycles recommended to me to use brass spoke washers a couple years ago and seems to have helped me.
http://www.tillercycles.co.uk/page2.html
Also Sheldon Brown mentions them
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#washers
 

mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
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The next point is lacing.
I read Sheldon Brown's comments, but was surprised to see that my Bafang 8-fun motor has the spoke heads all on the same side, not alternating in and out. They are one cross.
But I saw that Cwah's Brompton has the same arrangement, but zero cross which Sheldon considers inadvisable because the wheel can 'wind up'
Any thoughts?
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Heads all on one side is better when you need you off-set (dish) the rim. Cwah has a radial spoke pattern because it's a big motor in a small wheel, which doesn't leave room for crossing the spokes.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
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alternating heads is better, the spokes run straight without squashing on one another.
 

Ruadh495

Pedelecer
Oct 13, 2015
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I've been wondering about that too. My front motor wheel has a very simple lacing pattern, alternating heads but only crossing one spoke on the same flange (cross 2? since the spoke on the opposite flange is also crossed), done with what look to me like massively thick spokes. Any reasons for that? The motor is a smallish one in a 700c wheel, so there would be room for a more conventional cross 3 pattern. I assume it's someone's idea of a high strength wheel, though general opinion is that thinner spokes (with more crossings?) are better. I have to say that my limited experience doesn't support that. Both of the original wheels on my dutch bike had thicker than normal spokes and no spoke trouble, my current replacement rear wheel has standard spokes and breaks them (but I think there are other reasons for that). All these wheels have hub brakes.

I've also come across a Claude Butler Torridon, again hub braked, with a good collection of broken rear spokes. I rebuilt that wheel myself (first one I've done) using cheap spokes bought on line. It came out OK, I learned a lot, but its only done about 200 miles, so I can't say if it will prove reliable.

Apologies for all the questions, but I'm just getting into wheel building and trying to find out, particularly about motor wheels. It's already occurring to me that I bought a wheel when I would have done better to build one...
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
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woosh use 2-cross pattern with alternating heads on 26" and larger with good statistical results. All wheels are manually trued.

edit: d8veh pointed the error.
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

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3-cross is difficult on wheels with hub-motors because the angle is too much to line up with the nipple that is usually held fairly straight in a deep MTB-type rim. Often, you can't manage 2-cross either.
 

Georgew

Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2016
152
185
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Fife Scotland
3-cross is difficult on wheels with hub-motors because the angle is too much to line up with the nipple that is usually held fairly straight in a deep MTB-type rim. Often, you can't manage 2-cross either.
A large hub does present problems as to lacing and especially when a smaller heel is used. Some IGH manufacturers (e.g. Rohloff) will insist upon a particular lacing pattern as experience has taught them that the angle of the spoke/flange is critical if breakage is to be avoided. It could be argued that the choice of spokes used in terms of thickness and quality is not as critical as in larger wheels given that the smaller wheel is naturally stronger.