Speed or S Pedelec insurance

[flecc]

It seems then, from the posts so far, that unfortunately, it is probably impossible to get an S Class pedelec insured in the UK, for public, third party or product liability.

The third party risk is covered in any circumstance David.

An S class bike is a motor vehicle in UK law, so if not insured, by an arrangement with the government and the insurance industry, the Motor Insurance Bureau covers those uninsured third party liabilities. All the members of the industry share the annual costs of those liability payments. Only last year I successfully advised a friend to use this service.

Here is the link to read the agreements or make a claim: MIB Uninsured claims

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Flecc,

That of course is great for the injured third party.

However I imagine the uninsured rider would have a huge problem judging by the advice on the MIB site for anyone wanting to claim under this cover. Before making the claim the third party must first;

Make a formal complaint to the police. You are entitled to do this as a refusal to give insurance information is a criminal offence under Section 154 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

I would also imagine that if a claim was successful, the rider, and in certain circumstances the supplier could expect a call from the underwriters' law department looking to to recover their loss.

All the best

David

 

[jackhandy]

An S class bike is a motor vehicle in UK law, so if not insured, by an arrangement with the government and the insurance industry, the Motor Insurance Bureau covers those uninsured third party liabilities. All the members of the industry share the annual costs of those liability payments.
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I should think the insurance industry as a whole would be somewhat less than delighted with a dealer that deliberately followed that path: Not a lot of chance getting insurance cover in the future, methinks.

 

[flecc]

Indeed David, an S bike rider would have to declare their illegal use, but in many circumstances like serious injuries or death, that could be a much cheaper option than being faced with the third party payout and for many, possible bankruptcy.

But as said before, I'm quite sure the supplier has no liability since it is not in any way illegal to sell these bikes. The responsibility for legal use rests entirely with the user.

 

[flecc]

I should think the insurance industry as a whole would be somewhat less than delighted with a dealer that deliberately followed that path: Not a lot of chance getting insurance cover in the future, methinks.

You misunderstand, a dealer would not be making a claim in any circumstance. The scheme is to cover uninsured user liabilities after a third party suffered, and it would be the third party making the claim.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I'm quite sure the supplier has no liability since it is not in any way illegal to sell these bikes. The responsibility for legal use rests entirely with the user.

I understand Flecc, that we are able to sell the bikes perfectly legally. I am worried about the situation where a bike involved in the accident could be proven to be faulty and the cause of the accident. Of course we would refer back to the manufacturer, however the claim in the first instance would be made against the supplier in the UK and if the manufacturer's insurers wanted to be difficult the cost of a legal battle could be considerable.

Either way the S Class bike's rider would have problems as I would imagine it is impossible to insure a vehicle that is not legal in the first place. If insurance was obtained, I cannot imagine the underwriters paying out if there is a possibility of wriggling out of it.

I don't want to appear negative here, I love the idea of S Class bikes and as I have said before we would like to sell them if there is a way through this maze!

All the best

David

 

[amigafan2003]

we would like to sell them

As long as you don't falsely advertise or misinform prospective buyers then there is absolutely nothing preventing you selling these bikes.

Just don't offer any test rides

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Except of course if I want our customers, dealers and our business to be covered incase of a disaster.

All the best, David

 

[flecc]

I am worried about the situation where a bike involved in the accident could be proven to be faulty and the cause of the accident. Of course we would refer back to the manufacturer, however the claim in the first instance would be made against the supplier in the UK and if the manufacturer's insurers wanted to be difficult the cost of a legal battle could be considerable.

Either way the S Class bike's rider would have problems as I would imagine it is impossible to insure a vehicle that is not legal in the first place. If insurance was obtained, I cannot imagine the underwriters paying out if there is a possibility of wriggling out of it.

Agreed on both points you make David, though the chance of a quality German sourced S bike having a manufacturing fault that caused an accident is slight, the risk is there as you say.

The only chance of an owner getting insurance is the registration route of course. Unfortunately the single vehicle type approval that an owner has to use doesn't create a precedent, every owner would have to jump through the same hoops individually.

 

[Old_Dave]

as I have said before we would like to sell them if there is a way through this maze!

Simples

Register.. tax.. insure.. driving license, big helmet

 

[TwoBikes]

If it's any help, I know a motorcycle dealer who imports a brand of motorcycle from a central European country. Every Monday he takes two such motorcycles on a trailer to his nearest government testing centre and has them individually single vehicle approved. (Note not "type approved" - "type" is when you get one vehicle approved and then that approval applies to every example of that type of vehicle.) The dealer tells me that even though every motorcycle he takes to the testing centre is identical, they never fail to check every single aspect of the approval each time. The cost of single vehicle approval for the low power moped class is £55 per vehicle.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Two bikes, very interesting.

Love the name, brings to mind, Arthur "two sheds" Jackson of Monty Python fame.

 

[TwoBikes]

That's exactly it.

 

[flecc]

The cost of single vehicle approval for the low power moped class is £55 per vehicle.

It's £85 for an S class e-bike though, their assisted speed is up to 45 kph (28 mph).

The Low Power Moped class is restricted to 16 mph.

 

[TwoBikes]

... their assisted speed is up to 45 kph (28 mph).

Ah, yes. This will also mean that S class e-bikes will need to have all the equipment that motorcycles have. It's a long list. I read about someone trying to get single vehicle approval for a moped that he'd powered using a lawnmower engine or somesuch, and he only managed to do it because he could classify it as a low power moped.

 

[SRS]

Well, its all doom and gloom. I feel quite depressed.

I'm going to buy some petrol and go for a spin on my motorbike.

 

[103Alex1]

The cost of testing is negligible in the context of the thousands of pounds charged for a high-end Grace bike.

If a few mods are mandatory like indicators, horn etc. then having looked into the costs you're only talking about £100 or so of dealer-fitted customization which can be optional for the buyer to save them doing that themselves.

I'm sure if there was a will to actually put these bikes on sale (and someone will make a healthy margin off 'em) then having established the parameters with a couple of demonstrators and made them compliant it would most likely not be a big deal at all to get single vehicle approval for them - and for customers buying an 'S-pedelec' and wanting dealer to do that for them rather than them doing it themselves - their choice.

Probably less research for those in the business in fact than it's taken me to find a way of rigging up a couple of lights at the voltage I want to run them at, switched on the way I want to switch them on. All the work is up-front with these things. Then once you've established the how, at least with a commercialized operation you get to make that work for you going forward for sales.

But it may just be too much effort and easier just to not bother and try to sell more of the regular EU-compliant non-'S' bikes. No extra red tape to have to worry about that way, just a bit more PR with prospective buyers ... and a flat test route

 

[hoppy]

Yes come on Wisper,make history! Register and insure a 45kph ebike.It could open up a whole new market!

 

[the_killjoy]

If the law continues to be an utter ass about this I think what I might do is look seriously at getting an old snotter Honda /Yamaha stepthrough and electrify it. Simple change of power plant, akin to what I mentioned to flecc about re-motoring an ancient poppop.
The smaller stepthroughs, once shorn of surplus weight, would make reasonably good shopping bikes and be insurable, MoT-able, taxable (zero) and the brakes, suspension, tyres, etc are all cheap to maintain and up to the job. Plus, the bike's already been fully approved from day one.

Thinking on.. it needs nothing more than a 2, 3 or 4kW rear hub motor - where the current engine /gearbox assy is would occupied by batteries, so keeping the weight low down as before.

There are probably more conversions on the road than S class e-bikes, try this ;

Converted bikes • JozzBikes : PeaceHaven Electric Vehicle workshop

 

[RichB]

I really can't see the point in this?

Surely the real attraction of an ebike/pedelec is that it is a BIKE. After insuring, licence, indicators, approval, a ridiculously big helmet, number plate and cost, you're in moped/motorbike territory anyway?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a spin on a 30mph bike, but our laws in the UK would make it almost impossible to ride.

I'll stick to my motorbike licence for motorbikes, and my ebike for 15.5 mph thrills in shorts and a t-shirt, and no worries about safety clothing and insurance!