specialized levo battery health dropping

[wheeliepete]

Sounds like they have a cell balancing problem with thier batteries, or using rubbish cells, which I doubt. All that high tech software and they can't get the basics right. I would love to know how your LBS checked that "all cells ok". Is your range dropping along with the under charging?

 

[JRCSheffield]

Hello - LBS have an automated tester that they plug in to the battery, draws pretty pictures of several cells and measure cell voltages. Reports 100% ok!
Range - gut reaction is yes cannot get as far on same tracks, but this is winter and Lithium cells are notorious for not liking cold..daughters Nissan Leaf doing this during latest cold snap.

 

[wheeliepete]

I must admit this high tech stuff is beyond me, I fix my bikes with a multi meter and soldering iron! It does sound like it's a software issue if the cell voltages are all ok. As you say, the cold weather will affect cell performance in any battery, so it's difficult to gauge range. You will be able to tell with your new loan pack hopefully. Leave the boffins head scratching to work it out, and you can just carry on enjoying your bike.

 

[Nealh]

I expect they can check any parallel cell group as we can with a multimeter, each P group will have the same voltage. Any cell in P will support/prop up an underperfoming one, checking individual cells is harder when they are all interconnected up.
There is a possibilty that one or two cells are under performing but to get an accurate pic the pack would most likely need decommissioning to test each cell individually.

 

[JRCSheffield]

Battery is with Spesh at the moment..I have a loan battery at present...will update as soon as I know.

 

[JRCSheffield]

Still awaiting Spesh but loan battery from Spesh - displays a different story.
(Apparently they tell me that only full charge cycles - flat to fully charge are recorded under charge cycles on Mission Control - which would account for low value (12) on loan battery???)

My Battery Loan Battery
Firmware A.17.1 2.17.1
Charge Status 88% 99%
Battery Health 90% 100%
Odometer 1003 miles 1767km ( 1098 miles)
Charge Cycles 29 12

 

[vfr400]

There's a Bosch battery tester that dealers can buy that gives out nice print outs too, and it's not very expensive.

When the shop did the test, did they give you a copy of the print out? When they said everything was OK, did the print out show that? If you have the print out, can you show it to us? If the shop didn't give you the print out, I'd be wondering why.

 

[JRCSheffield]

LBS Battery print attached as requested.

 

[vfr400]

That's a weird report. It doesn't look like a load test. I would expect to see a chart of how the voltage of the pack and individual cells changed over time with a constant fixed load. It looks like they just measured the cell voltages and pronounced the battery 100% OK because they're balanced. Where does the 9.22 Ah come from? Is it just extrapolated from 82% of the total capacity? That would make the full capacity 11.24Ah or 404 Wh, though I thought their smallest battery was 460Wh on their latest bikes. It doesn't make sense.

Is the battery labelled SBC-B01, which is the 11Ah one from 2016? If not, what's on the label?

 

[wheeliepete]

What does the 100% represent? This suggests to me the battery is fully charged, but cells at 4.03v, somethings not right.

 

[Nealh]

100% may represent the fact that health wise the pack is balanced as all within 0.004v.

 

[wheeliepete]

100% may represent the fact that health wise the pack is balanced as all within 0.004v.

Yeah, I guess, but just looking at OP's comparasion on post #26, I assume he is comparing the two batteries in their fully charged state.

 

[JRCSheffield]

Spesh have finally replaced battery under warranty - saying they they found a fault.

If it helps anyone I have pasted the details of what they have found below.
I would state the bike and battery is stored in a cool integrated garage that never gets beyond 22C even in a hot summer. It has never been kept in a shed and only transported on the outside of my car.
From a Customer Service point of view It's a pity it took the best part of 3 months to resolve.
Spesh's comments............

• The battery cells of which there are 48 are perfectly balanced and are performing well.
• The battery has now got 89% battery health this will show as 90% on the Mission Control App as it rounds to the nearest 10%
• between July and September 2018 it dropped a significant amount of battery health
• In the last 15 Charge cycles it only dropped 1%

We've noticed that battery health can be damaged when the battery is subjected to excessive heat and fully charged this happens because when the battery is fully charged the increase in temperature increases the amount of energy stored in the battery and with 100% charge the excess energy has nowhere to go which results in some damage to the battery health. We wouldn't know for sure but this could explain the drop in battery health between July and Sept 2018 as it was a hot summer and many places where hotter than usual, this could be inside a car or shed or another location that could be affected by the sun. We'd always recommend keeping your battery stored below 100% charge so that if there is a rise in temperature your battery wouldn't be overcharged causing damage to the health, 80% may be a workable amount of charge to leave in your battery topping up the charge before your ride. If you do keep the bike in a room which has a lot of variance in temperature then perhaps it would be best to keep the battery outside of the bike in a different room with a more constant temperature. This is just our estimate of what may have caused the issues, perhaps you'll have a better idea of what may have caused the loss in battery health at that time if you have any other ideas that could have been the cause do let us know.

The fact that the battery has only dropped 1% in the last 15 charge cycles and the cells are balanced shows us that your battery is working well now and isn't draining battery health at an alarming rate. I've tested the battery with regards to the charge levels it will reach and it does appear there is a problem like you mention with it only reaching 90% charge, it could be that it was damage that happened to the battery at the same time as the drop in battery health between July and Sept 2018 that has now shown in the behavior we are seeing in the battery.

I've come to the conclusion that it will be best to replace the battery for you as your customer satisfaction is certainly important to us and we have found a fault in your battery

 

[vfr400]

This one of those things where what they're saying sounds like good advice and sort of makes sense. I think most people would follow that advice. Then you step back and have a think. The cells in their battery are surely the same as any others, and I doubt whether many people know about that advice to follow it, so I ask the question, how come Bosch and Wisper batteries, don't suddenly lose 10% of the charge when somebody charged the battery and left it out in the sun? My bike sits in my porch, which has glass all round, so the temperature goes sky high every time the sun comes out. I nearly always leave it fully charged. That's been going on for many years and my Chinese battery is still giving sterling service. I therefore have to say that it's a very nice theory, but total bullshit. Most likely, one of your cells started leaking because of a manufacturing fault.

 

[soundwave]

We've noticed that battery health can be damaged when the battery is subjected to excessive heat and fully charged this happens because when the battery is fully charged the increase in temperature increases the amount of energy stored in the battery and with 100% charge the excess energy has nowhere to go which results in some damage to the battery health

so a fully charged batt left in the heat will charge the cells even more ? what does there bms do then as heat will not charge a 18650 cell!

there talking out there ass as i leave my old 400w batt fully charged for weeks at a time some times and it makes no difference at all charge wise.

they sent you a new batt because the one you had was faulty thats all they had to say tbh, not lie lol.