Something other than ebikes

[indalo]

As a result of another thread being hijacked so a trade member can advertise his electric mopeds, I think it's important that every reader is aware of the dangers to our enjoyment of electrically-assisted bikes if the purveyors of such machines are allowed to go unchallenged.

I really don't want to make a big issue of it but readers should be aware that there are many entirely legal, electrically-assisted bikes which will will climb almost any hill and will provide owners with plentiful assistance on the flat. For those requiring more power or distance, there is a huge market in mopeds, scooters and light motorcycles.

Those of us who enjoy the freedoms associated with cycling aided by a little electrical power could in the future lose the privileges extended to us if more and more people decide to flout the law in regard to ebikes.

The dangers have been discussed before in these pages but, (and I hope he doesn't mind,) Flecc encapsulated the situation pretty concisely last December with this:

Assisted or not, only bicycles are exempted from motor vehicle laws and bureaucracy, so it's vital that e-bikes remain bicycles and do not creep towards becoming motorcycles, since that will lead to gradual loss of exemptions. That has already happened in Germany and Switzerland with their higher speed classes which have to comply with some motor vehicle regulations and have restrictions on where they can go.

Indalo

 

[amigafan2003]

Boring topic is boring.

FWIW - the 15mph limit/wattage limit is stupid and created by people that have no interest or idea about cycling - I for one will not be taking any notice of it - and haven't done so for a year of ebiking, without consequence I might add.

If you want people to adhere to the limits Indalo I think you're going to have to petition the government for greater enforcement because as it seems at the moment, no one really seems bothered - especially the Police - except when there has been an accident.

 

[flecc]

Boring topic is boring.

You don't have to read it.

 

[flecc]

No problem with quoting me Indalo, but as you see, it will all too often fall on deaf ears.

The existence of illegally powered and illegally speed assisted bikes has already harmed us in fact. The DfT are well aware of the existence of these and have been intimately involved in at least one prosecution. As a result of their knowledge, when the subject of the European parliament proposed easing of power limits was raised, their immediate reaction was that would not be accepted here.

Had there been no widespread flouting of the law, that reaction may well have been very different and unbiased. Thus the genuine benefit of a somewhat higher power limit that is needed to help the partially disabled, or for use in the most difficult circumstances, may well be denied to all who need it as a direct result of the selfishness of the few.

 

[tillson]

If you want people to adhere to the limits Indalo I think you're going to have to petition the government for greater enforcement because as it seems at the moment, no one really seems bothered - especially the Police - except when there has been an accident.

I don't think that anyone is bothered about anything in Blackpool are they? It certainly didn't look that way when I last visited.

Incidendly, doesn't Blackpool share the same unique distinction as Las Vegas by being the only other place on earth where it is possible to pay for sex using chips?

 

[eddieo]

And you are conversing with the damaged fruit of such an exchange.....

 

[flecc]

- the 15mph limit/wattage limit is stupid

Why is the speed limit stupid? We are speaking of assist power, to help with the difficult circumstances in cycling, such as steep hill climbing and facing fierce headwinds. Do unpowered cyclists ride at over 15 mph up steep hills or into fierce headwinds? No, and that's why the speed limit is not stupid, it's more than adequate to fit the circumstance.

The assist provision has never been intended to enable higher than normal cycling speeds, nor has it ever been intended to bring all cyclists up to sporting standards like the circa 20 mph that the lycra wearing drop handlebar riders commonly ride at. It's intended to assist the average person's cycling, and that all over the world is at less than 15 mph, and very much less in most cases. Those who commonly ride at much more than 15 mph clearly are not in need of assistance, so no provision is made for them.

As for the amount of power, the current law as it is applied is adequate, since e-bikes classified as legal can be bought which can climb any hill with low pedal assistance, albeit at low speeds. That is not a problem since unpowered cyclists including the Lycras also climb those very steep hills at low speed. There is a sound case for more power for the partially disabled who wish to cycle, but that could be provided for separately as a disabled provision.

 

[Scimitar]

Incidendly, doesn't Blackpool share the same unique distinction as Las Vegas by being the only other place on earth where it is possible to pay for sex using chips?

Good gawd - crisps or Harry Ramsden's?

 

[smudger1956]

While on the subject of dubious 'E-Bikes' a friend told me one of the chaps at his works brought one of those E-bikes that looks like a moped with pedals, he has constantly been stopped, mainly for no crash helmet, the Police thinking at first site it is a Moped, so he started wearing a crash helmet, and still gets stopped for no rear number plate, Police again thinking it is a moped.
Does make me think that all these incidents are logged and may get 'high-lighted' and bring E-Bikes under unnecessary scrutiny....

 

[amigafan2003]

And you are conversing with the damaged fruit of such an exchange.....

I was born in London actually and moved from that craphole as soon as I was able.

Also, I don't live in Blackpool, I just ride through it on the way to work.

But well done for resorting to personal insults again. Bravo sir, bravo!

Eddieo, Indalo and Tilson - I suggest you start resorting to other methods of argument rather than ad hominem fallacies if you want your topics to produce the discussion they deserve.

 

[Morgann]

Incidendly, doesn't Blackpool share the same unique distinction as Las Vegas by being the only other place on earth where it is possible to pay for sex using chips?

Spent my formative years trying to do this; curry sauce, gravy, nothing worked.

 

[tillson]

FWIW - the 15mph limit/wattage limit is stupid and created by people that have no interest or idea about cycling - I for one will not be taking any notice of it - and haven't done so for a year of ebiking, without consequence I might add.

OK, you don't like this particular rule because it doesn't suit your agenda. In this instance you want to do as you like. To hell with the conventions, to hell with other ebike owners and any effect your actions may have on them.

Fair enough.



BUT WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

Eddieo, Indalo and Tilson - I suggest you start resorting to other methods of argument rather than ad hominem fallacies if you want your topics to produce the discussion they deserve.

Oh, I see you now like rules. You want to follow conventions and do things according to etiquette.

I posted that comment about chips knowing that you would take the bait. You see people like you are generally selfish. They want to do as they please regardless of the effect on others, whilst at the same time they have an expectation that the people around them should behave in an orderly fashion by sticking to the rules, thus causing them the minimum of inconvenience.

The above example demonstrates this principle at work. I think that these people might be called hypocrites.

 

[amigafan2003]

Oh, I see you now like rules of debate. You want to follow conventions and do things according to etiquette.

I posted that comment about chips knowing that you would take the bait. You see people like you are generally selfish. They want to do as they please regardless of the effect on others, whilst at the same time they have an expectation that the people around them should behave in an orderly fashion by sticking to the rules, thus causing them the minimum of inconvenience.

I think they might be called hypocrites.

I think you'll find it's called risk management actually.

But again - you've just resorted to a ad homien fallacy. I'd have you on ignore except I find your posts midly amusing. So there you go - ad homien countered with ad homien

 

[Morgann]

So the point is that people using overpowered bikes may endanger the freedoms that we enjoy in using bikes that comply with the regulations. And you may well be right. But people have been railing against the 'Tragedy of the Commons' since Marcus Aurelius and had very little effect. I can't see the point of yet another acrimonious exchange about something that will or will not happen like it or not.

Except it makes a great pretext for a **** contest.

 

[amigafan2003]

Except it makes a great pretext for a **** contest.