So I've tried a few but still confused

[swordfish]

I've only tried 4 bikes but for me their was a clear winner
Giant (cant remember which model)
Trek Valencia
Wisper
Koga E-lement


I actually set out to test the Wisper, it wasn't for me. I'm quite a large fella and I just felt cramped on it. Also I couldn't really get on with the drive system. It just felt a bit "weird". I'm sure I could get used to it, but I suppose that's the problem with a half hour test.
The Giant and the Trek just felt a little bit cheap and not at all smooth.

Now my problem. The Koga. It's over £2 grand. Which I can afford but I'd set a limit. I really liked this bike. I cycled up a hill that I struggled with before I ruined my right knee.
You do have to put effort in, but as I'm trying to get fit I have no problem with this.
It's the Bosch system, but I can't find any reviews for this bike. In fact there are hardly any reviews for Koga e bikes. It did feel really well put together.
The styling isn't exactly what I'd choose either. I wanted a mountain bike style (it did ride really well on the road though). And I don't like the battery on the rear pannier rack. It just screams "ELECTRIC BIKE" to me. And as a bloke in a midlife crisis, I'd rather have something that looks better.
Dilemma, really liked the ride.

 

[Artstu]

It looks like you need to look at some more bikes, how about a Scott on ebay not sure if it has the latest improved display though.

 

[Jonah]

At around £2000 there is a big choice of quality crank-drive bikes with the Bosch, Panasonic or Impulse (Kalkhoff) motors. The Electric Bike Buyers Guide (available in WH Smiths) has reviews of many of them and AtoB magazine also has loads of reviews Electric Bike Buyer's Guide

But as you say, I can't see any reviews for Bosch powered Kogas.

For mountain bike style take a look at KTM, Haibike or the Focus Jarifa.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Just listed on Ebay A nice conversion It is a muddyfox Bike with a 10 AH 48 volt battery in frame mount £1495 + delivery

Xipi comuter Kube 1,500 watt 10AH Battery | eBay


Frank

 

[swordfish]

Well I spent all night last night searching Bosch crank driven bikes, due to the fact it was my favourite of the four and most like riding an unpowered bike and also the best for getting up hills IMO.
It seems that there isn't a great deal of price difference for this bike (50Nm Bosch with 400w battery) over different brands. I'm also thinking this is the sensible option. I loved the ride, it seemed extremely well put together, supposedly decent quality parts, dealership 5 minutes away (which is a MAJOR selling point to me), and I suppose that it will only be used on the road so a mountain bike is a bit pointless.
I think I'm talking myself into it. Just wish I had reviews from people who know e-bikes .

 

[ghouluk]

while i don't have any experience of their e-bikes, koga make great bikes, and the components look pretty good as well, so if you like the ride and have a dealer near by, why not?

 

[Ettica]

Hi Just listed on Ebay A nice conversion It is a muddyfox Bike with a 10 AH 48 volt battery in frame mount £1495 + delivery

Xipi comuter Kube 1,500 watt 10AH Battery | eBay


Frank

Looks good.
Just noticed the speed though:

In optional De restricted mode 258MPH

Now that's fast!!

 

[flecc]

Koga and Sparta are from the same Dutch company, and like other high end Dutch bikes they are extremely high quality. Some models do lack power though, being designed for the largely flat Dutch landscape but for build quality and finish they are unbeatable.

Ultimately though, most of Europe's bike industry is owned by two huge groups, the largest being Accell Group who own all these brands, including Koga and Sparta. The second group is Pon Holdings, less bike brands but still owning many large bike companies like Gazelle and Derby Cycles of Germany who make the Kalkhoff bikes and many others. These two giant groups also own large chunks of the US and Canadian cycle industry too.
.

 

[Streethawk]

I looked at the LPGA too, it looks very high quality, and quite sporty in my opinion. The only issue for me was that it's £400+ more expensive than similar bikes.

 

[swordfish]

Well, I've gone for it.
My local cycle shop lent me the bike for a while and I did my route to work and back and the roads around where I live a few times. The times I've taken my unpowered bike to work, I've ended up pushing it for the last 15 to 20 minutes. It's all uphill, starting gradually but ending up with a pain of an incline.
The Koga took it in it's stride. I'm in no way saying I flew up it, but I made the whole journey without stopping. I was actually a little embarrassed going past a teenager struggling The way the bike "powers" feels really natural to me. It really is like it's just me riding the bike but with 20 years younger (and fitter) legs.

I hopefully get the bike tomorrow. I've ended up getting 10% off the price and 12 months interest free credit. So I've gone over my limit by a little, but the deal softens the blow.




PS...The Wisper I tried had been sold. I met the fella who had bought it on my second visit. He was back with a few questions. He loved the Wisper, so it really goes to show that you need to try the bikes out.

 

[melspea]

The Koga took it in it's stride. I'm in no way saying I flew up it, but I made the whole journey without stopping. I was actually a little embarrassed going past a teenager struggling The way the bike "powers" feels really natural to me. It really is like it's just me riding the bike but with 20 years younger (and fitter) legs.

Swordfish, I applaud you for choosing a quality machine with the benefit of power assistance rather than a budget bike with low-grade components and zero panache. It really doesn't matter if the Koga isn't the fastest hill climber out there so long as it gets you up the hills comfortably.

Anyone who has never owned a top quality bicycle really cannot begin to imagine the pleasure bikes like the Koga provide but for those who can afford top-end bikes, they don't come much better than Koga.

It's nice to read about a forum member buying something other than the 'usual suspects' routinely reported on here. I sincerely hope you enjoy the bike in the long-term.

Melissa

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Swordfish, I applaud you for choosing a quality machine with the benefit of power assistance rather than a budget bike with low-grade components and zero panache. It really doesn't matter if the Koga isn't the fastest hill climber out there so long as it gets you up the hills comfortably.

Anyone who has never owned a top quality bicycle really cannot begin to imagine the pleasure bikes like the Koga provide but for those who can afford top-end bikes, they don't come much better than Koga.

It's nice to read about a forum member buying something other than the 'usual suspects' routinely reported on here. I sincerely hope you enjoy the bike in the long-term.

Melissa

I have to ask. Do you have a friend called Eddy?

 

[RobF]

I have to ask. Do you have a friend called Eddy?

I have no friend called Eddy, but Melissa sounds like my type of girl.

A quality bike, such as the Koga, has a smooth, almost buttery ride quality which is hard to describe but lovely to experience.

My Rose - similar price and components - was a revelation after the string of Chinese/£!k-ish bikes I had tried.

So it should be for £2.5K.

And the law of diminishing returns applies in ebikes as it does elsewhere, but you do get what you pay for.

 

[ghouluk]

funny you say that, but as much as i love the bh I have, I love the threads on here which talk about how people have built there own bikes and fettled the way around problems with ingenious and skillfull solutions.

I also appreciate the way that the vendors of the "budget bikes with cheap components" are on here, offering advice (sure, with a sales tint, but genuine all the same) and sharing new technologies and things they've seen with us mere mortals, and most importantly riding the bikes and enjoying them like we do - haven't seen too many of the premium brand builders doing the same though?

I guess what i'm saying is it takes all sorts, yes there is pleasure in owning a quality machine, yes there is pleasure in building something yourself, and there is pleasure in scoring a bargain, or finding the right tool to do the job at the right price.

oh dear...should not log on after being at the whiskey - way too amenable a drunk me

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I have to ask. Do you have a friend called Eddy?

It seems that Melissa (Melspea) might have been rumbled. I don't think we'll be hearing from him again. I also noticed that a thread has disappeared.

 

[D8ve]

Quality bike over junk for me although the whoosh cd is still on try list. My BH s are lovely road eating machines smooth and fast. And derestrictable as well. Gould which ones are yours?

 

[swordfish]

After 2 weeks of ownership, have to say I love it.
I've used my old Scott Navajo a few times for work (very very few times!) over the last few years and detested the ride home. My left knee couldn't take the hills and I walked the last mile. I now get home with no trouble
The main thing I'm impressed with, and others that have tried it, is the fluidity of the motor. You don't really feel it kicking in or not helping when you get over the magical 15mph (ish). It just simply makes it easier. It's just as though my legs are younger!
I'm having a ride to where my wife works later this week. It's a 6 mile virtually all uphill ride. Can't believe I'm actually looking forward to it after my last few lazy years. Have to admit I'm glad it's uphill there, and not the way back!
As for the bike, gears work beautifully. Really smooth. The only problem being that the bike is obviously not made for speed. 25mph down a hill and you are pedalling like mad to try and get more speed. Uphill and the gearing is great. I did have the chain come off once, and it's a pain to get back on. It stuck between the front cog and the chain guard and wouldn't shift. Allen keys and a removed guard sorted it, but still a pain.

The Bosch motor system is incredibly easy to use. I have read about earlier systems with too many options, this just has 4 power levels and "off". All 4 show you an estimated distance of battery power remaining.

One thing I didn't realise the bike had was a little locking device called a defender. This uses the same key on my bike as the battery. It's on the back wheel and slides through to lock the back wheel up. It obviously doesn't stop someone carrying your bike away, but at least they can't just hop on and ride it away. I've also bought a cable that attaches to it, so you can lock it to something solid. Also the cable is long enough to put through the front wheel, frame, seat and lock into the defender. I'm hoping this and my fahgettaboudit mini u-lock will suffice. Incidentally, when you see photos of how to use this mini u-lock, it shows to put the lock thro the frame and the rear wheel. There is too big a space between either wheel and the frame on this bike, so it will only lock the frame. So I'm really pleased for the defender device.

So in summary, I'm extremely happy with my purchase.

 

[103Alex1]

^^ really interesting review and great news you're happy with it. Sounds like a nicely built bike. It's interesting also that the mini u-lock won't go through the frame & rear wheel even on a bike with a rack battery. I just caved in and bought a big Pragmasis 1.5m chain with closed shackle padlock for my Agattu - the lack of crossbar on step-thru along with long wheelbase limits options on D/U-locks somewhat ! It goes through most stands and both front & rear wheels. Big old beast but am never bothered about leaving it. I only ever use the Defender frame lock if I'm stood at a cashpoint or somewhere basically next to the bike, so no-one actually rides off on it.

What interests me most is your comments about the bike not being built for speed. I guess this must be down to the chainwheel / freewheel at the cranks ? I never really thought about derailleur gearing on a crank motor bike till reading your review. Looking at the specs (10-sp cassette) on face value I'd have (clearly wrongly) probably assumed it would be great for speed when riding unassisted. So how does the gearing actually work with a Bosch or similar crank drive derailleur bike ? Is there a single chainring that corresponds to something like the middle chainring on a triple-MTB set which is limiting the unassisted speed capabilities ?

My (somewhat heavier) hub-motor bike has a derailleur and only a 9sp rather than a 10sp cassette (no freewheel) but I have a triple chainring. Even when riding unpowered on the flat (and especially downhill) am pretty much always on the biggest front ring and smallest rear sprocket on descents to really get speed up. It'll hit top (to date) unassisted speed of 48.2mph on an average 12% max 20% descent of 0.6 miles in that configuration. 29-35mph unpowered on shorter hills. I'm wondering what a bike like the Koga would do in similar conditions (above assist speed / unpowered). Any ideas ? I'm guessing the answer must have something to do with the front ring !

 

[D8ve]

BH has 41 front and 11 rear so max spinning legs around 30 ish.with Panasonic drive off.

 

[swordfish]

I'm actually not sure what people would call fast I suppose. I took both the koga and the Scott out today. Down a hill at 25mph and the Scott would still push hard in top gear. On the Koga, my little legs were spinning like mad. To be fair, I'm quite happy at 25mph. I just know I used to ride a lot faster in my "youth".
It was nice that after I'd had to push the Scott up half of the hill, I just rode up afterwards on the Koga. As I've said before, riding is now pleasurable. My car is nearly redundant!

As for the defender lock, I do agree I'd not really leave it anywhere out of sight with just that on it. I met the missus today for a cuppa and it was nice to just slide the bar across and leave it stood next to the railings. I maybe a big fella, but I'm sure I could catch someone trying to run away whilst carrying a 20+kg bike! The cable is only £15 off eBay, and great if just nipping into a shop. I'd still be nervous about leaving it for any time.