should ktm bikes sell sclass bikes without proof of private land.

[tillson]

Interesting thought there, if they're not much quicker it makes you wonder what all the opposition and fuss is all about.

I'm pleased that we have found some common ground upon which we both agree.

 

[Yamdude]

We don't sell to the public, so yes we can tell our retailers what they can and can't sell.

We can and will also continue to push for best practice within the industry as it benefits everyone.

Telling your own dealers what to sell and not what to sell is fair enough.... but not other dealers. We all know you're on mission about non legal ebikes from all sellers.
I see no difference from someone selling a non legal ebike, or a dongled CD bike, to someone selling pitbikes. You could go on to include all manner of things that are illegal to use in certain circumstances.
But if sellers are legally allowed to sell something, its up them and their right to do so.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Telling your own dealers what to sell and not what to sell is fair enough.... but not other dealers. We all know you're on mission about non legal ebikes from all sellers.
I see no difference from someone selling a non legal ebike, or a dongled CD bike, to someone selling pitbikes. You could go on to include all manner of things that are illegal to use in certain circumstances.
But if sellers are legally allowed to sell something, its up them and their right to do so.

So you're saying we (as an industry - this isn't just me, or even KTM on this) shouldn't be working with the Bicycle Association and the Motorbike Association and stand together with other business who are working for best practice in the industry to protect customers, and create a level playing field where good practice is the norm from distributors and retailers a like.

A quote from their recent joint press release........

"There are no "grey areas" when it comes to selling high-powered e-bikes, warns a joint statement from the representative bodies of the motorcycle and cycle industries. The statement from the Motorcycle Industry Association and the Bicycle Association of Great Britain says the organisations are concerned that some sellers are unaware of – or ignoring – the regulations pertaining to the sale and use of "speed pedelecs".

Some retailers are claiming that the high-powered e-bikes they stock are for "off-road use" and that this makes them exempt from existing rules. It does not, says the statement from MICA and BAGB."

 

[Yamdude]

So you're saying we (as an industry - this isn't just me, or even KTM on this) shouldn't be working with the Bicycle Association and the Motorbike Association and stand together with other business who are working for best practice in the industry to protect customers, and create a level playing field where good practice is the norm from distributors and retailers a like.

A quote from their recent joint press release........

"There are no "grey areas" when it comes to selling high-powered e-bikes, warns a joint statement from the representative bodies of the motorcycle and cycle industries. The statement from the Motorcycle Industry Association and the Bicycle Association of Great Britain says the organisations are concerned that some sellers are unaware of – or ignoring – the regulations pertaining to the sale and use of "speed pedelecs".

Some retailers are claiming that the high-powered e-bikes they stock are for "off-road use" and that this makes them exempt from existing rules. It does not, says the statement from MICA and BAGB."

Yeah yeah.... same old same old from you.
You just dont want others selling what you dont want to sell.... just like you dont want others posting on threads you start if its not in keeping with your views.
Smacks of being a control freak imo.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Well if you want to criticise me for consistency and taking a moral stance on something that actually causing my company to loose sales, go for it... I'll happily take that on the chin.

I'm also more than happy for people to post in any thread, its a free world.... if its in anyway related or even part of a deviation into a new and amusing or interesting way.

However he was just posting nonsense, and yes it annoyed me, I don't think getting annoyed by that makes me anything other than normal does it?

 

[Crockers]

Excuse me...but isn't this in the wrong section.. Thought there was a Spedelec one.

 

[soundwave]

well you are losing the poll so far or is that also nonsense

 

[Yamdude]

Well if you want to criticise me for consistency and taking a moral stance on something that actually causing my company to loose sales, go for it... I'll happily take that on the chin.

I'm also more than happy for people to post in any thread, its a free world.... if its in anyway related or even part of a deviation into a new and amusing or interesting way.

However he was just posting nonsense, and yes it annoyed me, I don't think getting annoyed by that makes me anything other than normal does it?

Bit more than just annoyed i think..... the phrase 'throwing the toys out your pram' more like. Using cap locks and telling him not to post on your thread.
As for the moral stance.... well its pretty obvious that the main reason is business related. Anyone that buys a non legal ebike aren't buying from you are are they !

 

[Artstu]

So you're saying we (as an industry - this isn't just me, or even KTM on this) shouldn't be working with the Bicycle Association and the Motorbike Association and stand together with other business who are working for best practice in the industry to protect customers, and create a level playing field where good practice is the norm from distributors and retailers a like.

A quote from their recent joint press release........

"There are no "grey areas" when it comes to selling high-powered e-bikes, warns a joint statement from the representative bodies of the motorcycle and cycle industries. The statement from the Motorcycle Industry Association and the Bicycle Association of Great Britain says the organisations are concerned that some sellers are unaware of – or ignoring – the regulations pertaining to the sale and use of "speed pedelecs".

Some retailers are claiming that the high-powered e-bikes they stock are for "off-road use" and that this makes them exempt from existing rules. It does not, says the statement from MICA and BAGB."

All forgotten in a nanosecond if a precedent had been set whereby someone riding an S-pedelec was not prosecuted. Nothing to do with moral standards.

So are we at KTM and our dealers missing a trick? Is there a case that has set a precedent for this? I really can't see it.

 

[soundwave]

if you want a s class ktm you can get 1 from here.

http://www.elektrofahrrad24.de/2016-ktm-macina-egnition-11-p545-speed-mtb-e-bike#.Vw5exjArJhE

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Bit more than just annoyed i think..... the phrase 'throwing the toys out your pram' more like. Using cap locks and telling him not to post on your thread.
As for the moral stance.... well its pretty obvious that the main reason is business related. Anyone that buys a non legal ebike aren't buying from you are are they !

Yes, he annoys the crap out of me. For a host of reasons, so yes I shouted but looking back at the thread I don't even feel the need to apologise, I think I was entitled to be annoyed, and throw my toys out of the pram.

Its a moral stance, thats comes from year of racing and riding mountain bikes. I don't want the access we worked hard to get, to be eroded. I also know a LOT of people who now ride legal eBikes and I'd hate to see these banned... as the baby could well be thrown at with the dish water on this, if we don't self police. This isn't be scaremongering, I speak to people at the forestry and trail centres all the time.

People buying non legal eBikes could easily be buying from us, we do make sPedelecs and we could easily supply some of these less responsible dealers. They have all asked about accounts. Our refusal to supply them and to campaign along with others about this issue is about preserving the eMTB industry and supporting the eBike dealer network (not just KTM dealers) who are being responsible. So it is of course a bit business related. But it is costing me money personally, every day.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

All forgotten in a nanosecond if a precedent had been set whereby someone riding an S-pedelec was not prosecuted. Nothing to do with moral standards.

It wouldn't have been, because its made up.

See my conversations with the magazine who printed it.

Which I posted before starting that thread... where I said:

"Hi Mark, do you have any news on this case? I have a feeling I know which one it is, and if im correct it didn't involve an spedelec, and it was important because it was at the time when the UK limit was 200w whist the rest of Europe was at 250w. It was deemed not in the public interest to prosecute because our law wasn't up to date. If this retailer is using this case to defend selling bikes that can't legally be used on the road they are incorrectly interpreting the legal situation to justify selling bikes that can't be used legally in the UK. Some more details would be great, because if I'm wrong there are a lot of shops (and me) who will be very happy because we can all start selling spedelecs and dongles. Obviously this will destroy access and create problems at trail centres and bridle ways all over the UK, but hey ho, we'll all make a few quid whilst it lasts so why stress "

I hope you'll notice the sense of irony in my last sentence.

 

[nemesis]

The S pedelecs aren`t realy needed off road anyway because the average speeds are low due to the terrain,you can climb up the hills with good assistance (bosch CX) and fly down the other side gravity assisted.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

well you are losing the poll so far or is that also nonsense

haha, well yes of course if 13 people think we should do it, that means we'll ignore the advise of the legal people at the Motorcycle Association and Bicycle Association.

 

[Yamdude]

Yes, he annoys the crap out of me. For a host of reasons, so yes I shouted but looking back at the thread I don't even feel the need to apologise, I think I was entitled to be annoyed, and throw my toys out of the pram.

Its a moral stance, thats comes from year of racing and riding mountain bikes. I don't want the access we worked hard to get, to be eroded. I also know a LOT of people who now ride legal eBikes and I'd hate to see these banned... as the baby could well be thrown at with the dish water on this, if we don't self police. This isn't be scaremongering, I speak to people at the forestry and trail centres all the time.

People buying non legal eBikes could easily be buying from us, we do make sPedelecs and we could easily supply some of these less responsible dealers. They have all asked about accounts. Our refusal to supply them and to campaign along with others about this issue is about preserving the eMTB industry and supporting the eBike dealer network (not just KTM dealers) who are being responsible. So it is of course a bit business related. But it is costing me money personally, every day.

As far as i'm concerned..... sellers of non legal ebikes are selling a product that they are legally allowed to do and supplying a product that people want.
Long may they continue.

 

[Wander]

This isn't be scaremongering, I speak to people at the forestry and trail centres all the time.

Thing is Col it only appears to be only you & one or two other members of this forum that seem to have these continual discussions up & down the country with various trail centres & event organisers.

Many, many of us have ridden many trail centres, forestry commission sites & entered events when the subject of dongles & S-pedelecs never ever comes up.

Makes me wonder who actually instigates all these discussions........

 

[Wander]

YES

NO

SW you missed off the third option:-

should ktm bikes sell sclass bikes without proof of private land.

1. yes
2. no
3. Don't care whether they do or don't

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Ok, next time we do a trade show, you're more than welcome to come on our stand. At the Bike Place Show at Silverstone a month ago which was the last time we were out and about, the Foresty Commission Wales came to speak to us about the problem, and what they and we could do about it. I didn't hunt them out.

The Motorcycle Association and Bicycle Association (we're not members of either, so I have no influence) thought it was a big enough issue to issue a joint press release - (when was the last time that happened do you think?) on the 2nd March this year. Again nothing to do with me, or KTM. Cube and Trek, and others have all contacted me... not me contacting them. These guys are all liaising with land owners and trying to do something.

Just because they aren't on here, doesn't mean its not happening.

 

[gray198]

Slightly different tack but maybe worth consideration. There are many trails where I live that have signs clearly stating that anyone using a motor powered vehicle could have it confiscated and crushed. I just wonder if this may apply to illegal ebikes. Very unlikely to happen I know but it may be something to think about.

gray

 

[tillson]

Slightly different tack but maybe worth consideration. There are many trails where I live that have signs clearly stating that anyone using a motor powered vehicle could have it confiscated and crushed. I just wonder if this may apply to illegal ebikes. Very unlikely to happen I know but it may be something to think about.

gray

Technically, an illegal ebike could be lawfully confiscated and destroyed because it is a powered motor vehicle. However, the chances of that happening are very small unless a more general and widespread ebike nuisance problem develops.