"Shafty" a shaft driven bike conversion build

[KirstinS]

I wanted to build a

*bullet proof commuter bike as possible
* That wouldn't rust to death in the sea air like the last one
* That would fail safe
* That was fully road legal and lower end of power (stop me being too lazy)
* Was relatively lightweight (for an ebike)

I searched for ages for shaft driven bike and eventually picked up a second hand Dynamic bikes Tempo 8 . It's a 700c hybrid ally frame with a alfine 8 rear hub and, crucially, a sussex drive shaft instead of a chain . 115 pounds for a 2014 model with all original paperwork.

I chose an xf07 front hub from Woosh as low power and weight but could be restricted to get may be 20mph without messing about with overvolting. Also I wanted to buy in UK

Oh, and obviously a front conversion is only option . But much as many hate them if the weight and balance on bike is right .....u actually like the dual drive feeling . Done wrong, as I have done , it's horrible

Another reason for this choice was the controller being hidden in the battery rail. Clean look with fewer wires and I own HL battery packs to fit ( Panasonic PF and 25a bms from Brighton ebikes , way more than system needs )

So, ally frame won't rust, alfine is bullet proof vgear system, hub motor is low maintenance and shaft drive should be good for 10,000km and battery/bms is over specced.

Here is the bike as bought, totally standard off the peg

 

[KirstinS]

Here is motor, well packaged as ever from Woosh

Hand for scale !

 

[KirstinS]

I ordered new bars in Xmas sales for 8 quid , saddle will be a Charge Pan from shed and I've some new black grips too.

I'll stick some old Stolen Throttle pedals on top for now and some panniers

Finally brakes need upgrading from rubbish mechanical discs. I have some cheap clarks hyro in the shed and maybe some shimano hydro from my hybrid ( frame snapped about 3 years back and i salvaged parts )

 

[KirstinS]

I should add that only the PAS I expect to give me trouble due to shaft drive and weird old bottom bracket

Though Woosh have been super helpful, looked at my photos and done their very best to provide an option that will work with the shaft system. I expect to have to bodge a little bit far less than without their help

 

[Deus]

i hope that shaft drive holds up there were a few that broke on hilly terrain as i remember

 

[KirstinS]

i hope that shaft drive holds up there were a few that broke on hilly terrain as i remember

Yes, my commute is flat along the seafront (15mile ) so no worries there .

But also not hear that in relation to the sussex drive

 

[Deus]

Shaft drives have a long history this is one of earlier efforts

 

[KirstinS]

Shaft drives have a long history this is one of earlier efforts

All exposed that one, plus it forms part of the frame structure itself as it replaces the chainstay

It was a deliberate decision not to go for that design

 

[E-Wheels]

Hand for scale !

Is it a small or large hand

 

[KirstinS]

So my other bike has developed some issues so I threw kit togther last night so i could get to work today.

Here it is with new bar, saddle and panniers. Pas not fitted yet as it needs some ingenuity, sugru and epoxy. Only had time to upgrade the front brake to a shimano hydro. Rear still currently a rubbish tecktro mechanical disc

With some bigger volume tyres, a proper suntour suspension post (and some grips!!) This is going to be total winner

Ride felt smooth and more torque than I had expected going uphill

Speed is showing 16/17mph on the LCD . I need to check vs GPS and I've not changed anything. It may go quicker but not really important . I wanted a legal, leightweight assist

Bike feels nicely balanced actually (before loading panniers anyway )

it also seems very effiecent , 7 miles in and no bars gone on battery .

 

[Woosh]

KirstinS, are you going to fit the drilled magnet disc I sent you?
I noticed that the sensor head needs something to attach it to the seat tube or to the bottom bracket left cup.
The cup has six bolts, can you attach the sensor to one of the bolts?

 

[flecc]

So my other bike has developed some issues so I threw kit togther last night so i could get to work today.

Here it is with new bar, saddle and panniers. Pas not fitted yet as it needs some ingenuity, sugru and epoxy. Only had time to upgrade the front brake to a shimano hydro. Rear still currently a rubbish tecktro mechanical disc

With some bigger volume tyres, a proper suntour suspension post (and some grips!!) This is going to be total winner

Ride felt smooth and more torque than I had expected going uphill

Speed is showing 16/17mph on the LCD . I need to check vs GPS and I've not changed anything. It may go quicker but not really important . I wanted a legal, leightweight assist

Bike feels nicely balanced actually (before loading panniers anyway )

it also seems very effiecent , 7 miles in and no bars gone on battery .

Looking good already, a nice clean commuter that's also unusual. You'll be causing jealousy in some other commuters in your area!
.

 

[KirstinS]

KirstinS, are you going to fit the drilled magnet disc I sent you?
I noticed that the sensor head needs something to attach it to the seat tube or to the bottom bracket left cup.
The cup has six bolts, can you attach the sensor to one of the bolts?

Yes , absolutely going to use it as the normal version wouldn't work at all....but there isn't room on the drive side for the sensor and pas ring. Even when I removed the metal retainer

There is space on the non drive side I think and it will fit without the metal retainer. Getting disc and sensor aligned and secure will still be challenging but I'll post when done

 

[jarob10]

Inspirational stuff, good luck!

 

[KirstinS]

The bike is now my regular commuter. The PAS issue was fixed by use of Sugru (and Woosh's drilled out PAS ring)

The speed was a bit slow so I gave myself options. I opened the controller and splice in a loop ending in xt60 connector. This means I can add lipo packs to increase voltage.

The capacitor are 63v rated so I've added a 2s then 3s and 4s lipo by way of test. 4s does 24mph which is actually a fraction too fast for the gearing

Obviously this voids my warranty and illegal on public roads. However. I have access to private roads and land. So it is nice to be able to have options. Main 36v hailong pack runs to 16mph or I can add lipo packs and chuck them in my panniers as I choose.

 

[jarob10]

Bargain donor bike, great find

Presumably bevel gears are used in the shaft drive? Any issues with noise / heat?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Fascinating stuff, thank you for posting. Are shaft drive bicycles more or less efficient than chain?

 

[KirstinS]

Bargain donor bike, great find

Presumably bevel gears are used in the shaft drive? Any issues with noise / heat?

Certainly mine is less noisy than a chain.

I can't imagine I can pedal fast enough to produce any heat !

Edit - I should add I mean this before I added a motor. Any sound heard is from motor not the shaft drive

There is a little hole to add grease to the shaft system occasionally (far less than often than a chain )

 

[KirstinS]

Fascinating stuff, thank you for posting. Are shaft drive bicycles more or less efficient than chain?

Depends who you ask to be honest. Manufacturers claim they are as effiecent as chains. Chain manufacturer claim 99% efficiency

However in reality , chains are not that good. That's almost perfect lab conditions to achieve it.A bit like emissions and mileage quotes in cars !

My own view as a very lazy /hater of maintenance is a chain is probably 90 plusand the shaft is probably a 5 to 10% less.

However , in an ebike this makes zero real life difference

Shafty is loaded up with panniers full of gear and a tiny motor (compared to my Bbs02b mid drive mountain bike). Yet is sips power and (with boosters) is at least as fast (though the mtb is geared to climb cliff faces )

So practically, in my view, it's the motor that makes the significant difference in an ebike.

However the feel is different . Zero slack in the system. Tiny pedal pressure results in motion

 

[Charli]

The bike is now my regular commuter. The PAS issue was fixed by use of Sugru (and Woosh's drilled out PAS ring)

The speed was a bit slow so I gave myself options. I opened the controller and splice in a loop ending in xt60 connector. This means I can add lipo packs to increase voltage.

The capacitor are 63v rated so I've added a 2s then 3s and 4s lipo by way of test. 4s does 24mph which is actually a fraction too fast for the gearing

Obviously this voids my warranty and illegal on public roads. However. I have access to private roads and land. So it is nice to be able to have options. Main 36v hailong pack runs to 16mph or I can add lipo packs and chuck them in my panniers as I choose.

First post - hope I'm doing it right!

Hi Kirstin - about the shafty e-bike -

I have one of these Dynamics Tempo bikes (since 2014, no problems with it, ever!), but I'm having trouble using it due to failing leg strength so the elec option is very attractive. Please can you give opinions / answers on a few questions

The general construction looks fairly easy and woosh look good people, so I'm sure I can get the motor bit sorted. The PAS sensor looks the hard bit , so ...

What exactly did woosh do to drill it out? Is it just a matter of making a central hole bigger or do you need to make other mods? What shape is the hole? (I guess not circular as it would then turn on the bracket ... or does it attach to a crank?) Basically, is it likely I could I get it done with a daughter who has workshop tools and skills but won't be experienced at this?

Where did you mount the sensor?

Do you need any front fork strengthening for the motor, or a torsion arm? I've seen comments that the forks and/or dropouts are weak, though I've had no trouble

What's a lipo pack? Presumably it's to do with a battery or battery booster, but the only google I can find refers to liposuction. And in same area, presumably 2s, 3s and 4s refer to numbers of banks of cells which would be attached in series to boost voltage. I doubt I'll want to do this but it's interesting. The controller comes with the kit so presumably the connections are explained? I've seen Micah Toll's stuff on the net on battery building so I have some idea of how it all works

And a bit off the wall - why not get a small battery motor to spin the PAS and mount it on the bars? Then the hub motor is pedal-assisting the little battery motor and you don't have to pedal at all. That's almost certainly not legal!

Charli