Sanyo NCR vs Samsung 29E

[krzychoniusz]

Sanyo NCR cells seem to be a step up from Samsung 29E with more capacity per cell, but is there any real advantage of buying a battery based on NCR over 29E apart from less weight? I assume reliability (less cells = less things to go wrong), anything else? Performance/power output improvements?

BTW I'd be using it with BBSHD.

Thanks

 

[Fordulike]

Sanyo NCR cells seem to be a step up from Samsung 29E with more capacity per cell, but is there any real advantage of buying a battery based on NCR over 29E apart from less weight? I assume reliability (less cells = less things to go wrong), anything else? Performance/power output improvements?

BTW I'd be using it with BBSHD.

Thanks

You'll kill the cells in either of those battery packs, unless it's made with at least 5P. I ruined a Samsung 29E 13S4P pack within a couple of years, running a lesser powered BBS02.

If you've got the budget, go for a pack using Samsung 30Q cells or equivalent. It's false economy if you don't. I found out the hard way

 

[Woosh]

The minimum is 13S4P NCR GA cells (48V 14AH). They support 3C, 3*14A = 42A max, good for 30A BMS.

 

[Fordulike]

Just to give you a heads up @krzychoniusz, before you make a decision and spend your hard earned cash. All battery pack cells deteriorate with use and age. You will experience this deterioration as voltage sag, which is where the voltage drops by a certain amount when the battery is subjected to a load. The speed and torque of the motor will decrease with this sag and result in a marked drop in performance.

Some battery cells are better than others for resisting this aging effect over time, which is why it is best to spend that little bit more in the first place, selecting cells up to the job. There's nothing worse than having a pack that cannot provide enough power for current hungry beasts, such as a BBS02 or BBSHD, after only a year or two.

 

[Nealh]

GA can handle 12a spikes despite it's 10a rating.
Agree with Ford min 5p for BBSHD and forget 29e they will be pants.
GA would be good more so in 6P, otherwise 30q x 5p or even better cells are Sony VTC6.

 

[krzychoniusz]

What about BBS02, would 29E cells be good enough to power it? Would it help if controller was set to 18amp max?

 

[Fordulike]

What about BBS02, would 29E cells be good enough to power it? Would it help if controller was set to 18amp max?

18 amps should be ok, but as I mentioned in post #2 above, I pretty much killed a 4P pack running 25 amps.

 

[Nealh]

29e didn't fair to well after two uses of derestricted GSM drive at 18/20a, That was about 3 years ago also been running 29e on 20a bpm unrestricted and over time cells can't handle high draw.
I can still get up to 40 miles use out of two 29e's on flat terrain but they don't like more then pas 2 level with 20a and sag like hell with throttle use when down to about 37.5 - 38v. If I use pas3 only get 18 -24 miles.
Use only for low power use and keep cut off at 25km/h, for BBS02/HD use pucker cells.

 

[krzychoniusz]

Thanks, I realise buying BBSxx and de-tunning to 18A is pointless, might as well buy 500W motor and save me some money. I will pass on 29E then.

What about Panasonic PF or LG MJ1? They both seem to be performing well according to the attached chart (taken from em3ev website) but are cheaper than 30Q?

 

[Nealh]

MJ1 has more capacity then PF so more range, PF less capacity but better under load so less voltage sag at moderate load both are v.good cells. Both whale batteries use 6p configuration

If using more then 20a load use 30Q or VTC6.

Typically expect to see 0.3 - 0.5v sag < 5a loading above this sag will increase, though always bounces back once the load lessens.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The other option is a custom made battery with 20700 cells:

- 4000 mAh
- 15 Amp discharge

Capacity and high discharge at 4P13S. My current project is to build a 20 Ah battery using 2 x 5P6S bricks in series - no BMS, balance charged by the lipo chargers I have and with the LVC set to 38.5v on the LCD (3.2v per cell).

 

[krzychoniusz]

That would be the best but I have no skill unfortunately...