Sanity check my thinking, paralysed by choice, please help!

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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that's the thing.
Lots of ideas are plausible on paper but when it comes to actual production, the only sure bet is when the idea yields a reduction in weight even though weight is not important when you have an electric motor.
 

WheezyRider

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Apr 20, 2020
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Woosh:

Are you sure that kit built bikes are allowed to have a twist and go after 2016?


Have you got a link to the law about kits for bikes, saying that this is ok?

I don't agree about the need to change gears on the flat at 15.5 mph or above. Cruise cadence can depend on the conditions, like how windy it is, the direction and how you are feeling on the day. I would normally use about 3 gears cruising between 15 and 20 mph, depending on the conditions. Then, if I have a strong tail wind, I could go as high as 30 mph, needing a much higher gear, so I don't end up looking like a hamster.

So your battery is flat, or you have an electrical failure, you have one gear. Do you go for a granny gear to allow you to get up the worst incline on your journey? Or do you go for a cruise gear and then get off and push on the hills, or just give up in strong wind?

I think gears of all varieties are going to be around for a while yet.
 
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WheezyRider

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are we talking about 15mph assist bikes here?

I'm talking about any push bike, motorless, or with motor assist up to 15.5 mph.

On a modern bike with modern tyres with a good wind behind you, 30 mph is not that difficult.
 

Woosh

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I thought wheezy would probably plod ...
of course you would need gears to switch between 15mph to 30mph.:cool:
 

soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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gear power, my spin out speed is 35mph no wind needed ;)
 

soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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Yowzers SW, it must be hilly wherever you live!
i use my gears like a throttle same as a race car going round corners in the right gear ;)

 
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Eskii

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Jun 25, 2020
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So if im hearing you guys correct - there's nothing wrong with the bike i've picked, but everyone is different and there may be something about it that I personally dont get on with. That makes sense to some degree, but can it really be that bad?

I'll look into what I can do about getting to a shop. Can you tell me what it is I need to vary or try out? Is it different gearing? Or different manufacturer? Or different wheels?

How do you begin to choose other than ride every bike ever made haha? Do you get to test ride for hours?
 

Gavin

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May 11, 2020
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but can it really be that bad?
Yes it can- having the wrong bike sucks!

Your "wish-list" is quite ranging and will involve conflicting requirements. An example of this is you want to go into nature but also on road. How much of each? If you're going through muddy tracks you'll want knobblies (tyres) for grip, but they're not much fun on the road. But if you go down a muddy descent on road tyres you'll probably end up on your arse.

Likewise terrain. Big hits require decent travel suspension but on the road you waste a lot of your own energy just bouncing the suspension around as you pedal.

I was where you are 2 years ago, and got so confuddled by it all I ended up building a bike from scratch to suit my needs, and even that isn't the perfect solution.

Perhaps try and refine your "wish list" into a specification, then rank each point as "must have", "like to have" and "not fussed". This might clarify your thinking.

One other consideration. Most bikes can be adapted to do most things- all it takes is money. But if you've already blown yer wad on the bike, you can't afford mods. I'd recommend spending significantly less than the figure you've quoted on a first bike for that reason, as well as the reasons mentioned by previous posters...

Good luck!
 

Ocsid

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So if im hearing you guys correct - there's nothing wrong with the bike i've picked, but everyone is different and there may be something about it that I personally dont get on with. That makes sense to some degree, but can it really be that bad?

Do you get to test ride for hours?
Not having cycled for so long, what I found as a lifelong quite keen cyclist might not be such an issue for you, but it was the nature of the power assistance that I found a deciding issue.
E-bikes basically fall into two camps, a powered bike or a power assisted bike.
The former can near totally power you along requiring at the most a token contribution on the pedals.
The power assist is an enhancement to true push bike cycling, lending a welcome hand to the effort you put into it. I am firmly in this camp, I want to continue "cycling" as I enjoy "cycling" though nearing eighty I want a bit of help doing what I always have done.
In that the power management, even of the power assisted bikes differ and IMO that is an area where comparing different "takes" on power management contribute to decision making. How seamlessly power is added and removed passing through 16 mph.

Re time of a demo, the dealers I went to all I expect had an assumption I would not be off for half a day, if I recall, I probably was out for 45 minutes a time and no one took exception, at least evidently. They did require the test to be pre arranged.
What I would do now and I suggest is worthwhile, is to hire one that is at least similar to what you want, for half or a whole day.
I would suggest you discipline yourself not to buy your first "ride" there and then, all will impress. What I would need to know is this one more or less "impressive" than the others I have tried.
 
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WheezyRider

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Apr 20, 2020
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I thought wheezy would probably plod ...
of course you would need gears to switch between 15mph to 30mph.:cool:

Yeah, not so much these days...;) still in post op recovery...but a few years back it would not have been a problem. But, on a good day with a long flat stretch with a good tailwind, I can still build up a decent speed over 15.5 mph when the motor is shut down and I need gears to optimise cadence to prevent strain or muscle tiredness.
 

WheezyRider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 20, 2020
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So if im hearing you guys correct - there's nothing wrong with the bike i've picked, but everyone is different and there may be something about it that I personally dont get on with. That makes sense to some degree, but can it really be that bad?

I'll look into what I can do about getting to a shop. Can you tell me what it is I need to vary or try out? Is it different gearing? Or different manufacturer? Or different wheels?

How do you begin to choose other than ride every bike ever made haha? Do you get to test ride for hours?
The key thing with any bike is to make sure it's a comfortable and safe fit for your body. If you get it wrong, you can do bad damage to your back knees etc.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Are you sure that kit built bikes are allowed to have a twist and go after 2016?

Have you got a link to the law about kits for bikes, saying that this is ok?
There is no law for kits, the 1983 EAPC regulations as amended 6th April 2015 applies only to manufactured pedelecs.

Therefore the suppliers and users of kits operate in a legal vacuum. Scroll down to KIT MOTORS in the link below of my legal advice thread:

Pedelec Law - the Details
.
 
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WheezyRider

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Apr 20, 2020
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There is no law for kits, the 1983 EAPC regulations as amended 6th April 2015 applies only to manufactured pedelecs.

Therefore the suppliers and users of kits operate in a legal vacuum. Scroll down to KIT MOTORS in the link below of my legal advice thread:

Pedelec Law - the Details
.
Thanks for that Flecc. So although these laws do not apply to kits, there isn't anything in writing to say that they are ok either?

So why do kits still need to conform to the 250W power limit and speed cut off limit and power only when pedalling, if the pedelec rules don't apply to kits?

With the existing laws, does it specifically say that they only apply to manufacturers? I don't want to seem unnecessarily pedantic, I'd just like to see where it says that in writing.

The other thing i was wondering is whether a twist and go throttle would still contravene the 1963 law about pedestrian controlled vehicles and having power from a standing start?
 

Gavin

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@WheezyRider I'm also interested in the answer to that. However this thread has gone seriously "off-piste" considering the OP wanted advice on which bike to buy.

Better to resurrect @flecc's original post so everything of relevance stays in one place for future reference....
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Thanks for that Flecc. So although these laws do not apply to kits, there isn't anything in writing to say that they are ok either?

So why do kits still need to conform to the 250W power limit and speed cut off limit and power only when pedalling, if the pedelec rules don't apply to kits?

With the existing laws, does it specifically say that they only apply to manufacturers? I don't want to seem unnecessarily pedantic, I'd just like to see where it says that in writing.

The other thing i was wondering is whether a twist and go throttle would still contravene the 1963 law about pedestrian controlled vehicles and having power from a standing start?
@WheezyRider I'm also interested in the answer to that. However this thread has gone seriously "off-piste" considering the OP wanted advice on which bike to buy.

Better to resurrect @flecc's original post so everything of relevance stays in one place for future reference....
Answer transferred to Pedelecs Law - The Details
.
 
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