Sanity check my thinking, paralysed by choice, please help!

[Eskii]

I haven't had a bike since I was a child. I'm now 30. I'm of average fitness. I want a bike for general transport, for potentially commuting, but most of all for getting out in nature. I also have a medical condition called Fibroymyalgia that sometimes leaves me with no energy. There are so few in stock in the UK right now. My Cycle Scheme limit is £4,000.

I have done lot's of reading. I think I understand most of the terminology now, but i'm still a little unsure as to what bike is right for me. I'm sure the answer is "go try as many as you can" but there are no shops near me, and Covid has made it tough. I need to make as good as an informed decision as I can now, and then hope for the best. Here is my thinking so far:

Type of Bike: Considering I want to go in nature and on road in equal amounts, with maybe a slight skew towards nature, a Gravel bike seems best for me. Because of my medical condition, and my want to explore as far as I can, an Ebike seems great too. Means if I do commute I might not be so sweaty also

Frame: I probably can't afford a carbon bike, so i'm guessing I will choose Aluminium.

Fork: I probably can't afford good suspension, and seems like lots of people say you don't need it. I want comfort however, so I guess I will choose a carbon fork.

Wheels: I like the idea of 650b 47mm tyres. I want comfort, both on and off road. I'm not trying to set world records. However, what I dont know is if 700c wheels with 37mm will be basically just as good off road but better on road. I know 650b will be more comfortable, and 700c will be more efficient, but how much is that difference?

Gearing: This I understand less but basically you want a 2by gearing really. 1by gearing seems for special purposes i dont understnad.

In general then I think the bike that fits me best is the Cannondale Synapse Neo SE. I looked at the new Topstone Carbon Neo which seems amazing but is right at the top of my budget, and doesn't come with 650b tyres. The lefty 3 does but that £5k and so out of my budget.

I can't find any Neo SEs in stock right now so im just srot of waiting, but I honestly dont know if any of the decisions ive made are right. It's a lot ofmoney for a first bike too. Im confident i'll use it, and buying through the cycle scheme saves a lot. My main worry is buying the wrong wheels or it being too uncomfortable or causing me neck ache/back ache.

Can anyone give me and advice, general or specific? It's a lot of money to spend and get wrong. I just want a bike lol.

 

[Andy-Mat]

I haven't had a bike since I was a child. I'm now 30. I'm of average fitness. I want a bike for general transport, for potentially commuting, but most of all for getting out in nature. I also have a medical condition called Fibroymyalgia that sometimes leaves me with no energy. There are so few in stock in the UK right now. My Cycle Scheme limit is £4,000.

I have done lot's of reading. I think I understand most of the terminology now, but i'm still a little unsure as to what bike is right for me. I'm sure the answer is "go try as many as you can" but there are no shops near me, and Covid has made it tough. I need to make as good as an informed decision as I can now, and then hope for the best. Here is my thinking so far:

Type of Bike: Considering I want to go in nature and on road in equal amounts, with maybe a slight skew towards nature, a Gravel bike seems best for me. Because of my medical condition, and my want to explore as far as I can, an Ebike seems great too. Means if I do commute I might not be so sweaty also

Frame: I probably can't afford a carbon bike, so i'm guessing I will choose Aluminium.

Fork: I probably can't afford good suspension, and seems like lots of people say you don't need it. I want comfort however, so I guess I will choose a carbon fork.

Wheels: I like the idea of 650b 47mm tyres. I want comfort, both on and off road. I'm not trying to set world records. However, what I dont know is if 700c wheels with 37mm will be basically just as good off road but better on road. I know 650b will be more comfortable, and 700c will be more efficient, but how much is that difference?

Gearing: This I understand less but basically you want a 2by gearing really. 1by gearing seems for special purposes i dont understnad.

In general then I think the bike that fits me best is the Cannondale Synapse Neo SE. I looked at the new Topstone Carbon Neo which seems amazing but is right at the top of my budget, and doesn't come with 650b tyres. The lefty 3 does but that £5k and so out of my budget.

I can't find any Neo SEs in stock right now so im just srot of waiting, but I honestly dont know if any of the decisions ive made are right. It's a lot ofmoney for a first bike too. Im confident i'll use it, and buying through the cycle scheme saves a lot. My main worry is buying the wrong wheels or it being too uncomfortable or causing me neck ache/back ache.

Can anyone give me and advice, general or specific? It's a lot of money to spend and get wrong. I just want a bike lol.

The bike you have picked out appears to be great, maybe apart from the drop handlebars, I myself find/found that they were really bad for my back and hips, back when I was a little over 30 myself.
As you have picked out a rear hub bike, you have cleverly avoided the "single point of failure" that mid motor bikes are known for, that could (with your condition) possibly leave you stranded many miles from home, with no energy or wish to walk home.....unless you take a spare chain and tools with you on every ride!
I have to add that the bike you have picked, that I personally have never seen or ridden, nor have I been paid to say nice things about it!
I wish you many years of fun, but do learn exactly how to maintain your battery fully, for many years to come, its not quite as simple as some manufacturers make out, but once you know, its really easy to maintain such batteries fully!!
Regards
Andy

 

[Eskii]

The bike you have picked out appears to be great, maybe apart from the drop handlebars, I myself find/found that they were really bad for my back and hips, back when I was a little over 30 myself.
As you have picked out a rear hub bike, you have cleverly avoided the "single point of failure" that mid motor bikes are known for, that could (with your condition) possibly leave you stranded many miles from home, with no energy or wish to walk home.....unless you take a spare chain and tools with you on every ride!
I have to add that the bike you have picked, that I personally have never seen or ridden, nor have I been paid to say nice things about it!
I wish you many years of fun, but do learn exactly how to maintain your battery fully, for many years to come, its not quite as simple as some manufacturers make out, but once you know, its really easy to maintain such batteries fully!!
Regards
Andy

Phew, thanks Andy. I avoided a problem I didn't even know existed! I read the drop bars are better than flat bars because you can always hold a drop bar in the middle like a flat bar anyway. Is that not true?

I have a lot to learn in terms of maintenance. My brain has been so full of new information I haven't got into that yet. I think I understand that I want to be tubeless, and I want a little bag under the saddle that has a pump, tyres patches, and sealant. I understand i'll to grease/oil the chain. But that's all I know so far, and I don't which makes or brands of those things to buy.

One thing at a time, need to get a bike first! I'm excited!

 

[sjpt]

Phew, thanks Andy. I avoided a problem I didn't even know existed! I read the drop bars are better than flat bars because you can always hold a drop bar in the middle like a flat bar anyway. Is that not true?

If you hold drop bars in the middle you have very little leverage for steering and usually don't have almost instantaneous access to the brakes. Fine for a variation on position on a long ride, but not good as a 'main' position.

Even consider with 'flat' bars if you want them to be almost straight (good for mountain bike control) or somewhat swept back (generally more comfortable for long stretches). And how high you want them, well above saddle height sit up and beg is excellent for many things, but not sporty riding. Lower gives less wind resistance and some control benefits, but at the cost of comfort (particularly your neck often has to be at at an awkward backwards angle in order to look forwards).

A useful compromise is flat bars with little extenders at the ends for a different hand position.

I think I've been through most of the styles at different times for different reasons. Now at 73 and rarely riding much more than 20 miles at a time there is no competition, high somewhat swept back sit up and beg. That still works for easy 'gravel' style tracks and off-road paths; certain not for mountain riding.

~~~
Differences in wheel sizes are not that important; mainly stressed by the marketeers to have a different trend each year to persuade people they need a new bike. (Part of that strategy is to make sure that the way sizes are expressed is as confusing as possible. It used to be confusing because of history, nearly got sensible with ETRO, now made confusing again for no good reason.)

~~~
Another thing that may be relevant to your Fibroymyalgia. With torque sensing (typical on almost all high end bikes) you always have to put in some effort which the motor then multiplies. You might end up only having to put in 1/4 or 1/5 of the total, but that can still be a lot on a big hill nearing home. Cadence sensors are more basic, but mean as long as you can keep the pedals turning the motor will do all the work.

~~~
Whatever decision you make I'm sure you'll enjoy the electric experience.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Phew, thanks Andy. I avoided a problem I didn't even know existed! I read the drop bars are better than flat bars because you can always hold a drop bar in the middle like a flat bar anyway. Is that not true?

True, and you can also purchase extra handles (I have no idea what they are called, sorry!), to allow you to sit even more upright!. But nobody buys or does not buy a bike because of the handlebars, as they are so easily swapped out if needed.....

I have a lot to learn in terms of maintenance. My brain has been so full of new information I haven't got into that yet. I think I understand that I want to be tubeless, and I want a little bag under the saddle that has a pump, tyres patches, and sealant. I understand i'll to grease/oil the chain. But that's all I know so far, and I don't which makes or brands of those things to buy.

I like panniers myself, as I also go shopping occasionally as well....
I have always gone "tubed", as the dozens of holes that could let air out, were something I did not want to try out.
But I am sure there are people here who can give you better infos on going tubeless or not, just give them time to react!
Some people simply take an old tyre, cut off the walls, and place the tread part between the tube and the inside of the tyre, cheap and effective.There are also tyres that are "armoured" in some way to reject sharp objects.

One thing at a time, need to get a bike first! I'm excited!

As you should be, you are doing something very good for your health and general demeanour, well done! Also, something for the environment, as the few pennies a charge costs, are probably used up just by starting your car, and then switching it off!(Guessing a bit!)
It has been proven that e-bike owners leave the car in the garage far more often than normal bike owners.....and that they are also "fitter".
Regards
Andy

 

[vfr400]

If you have £3000 spare cash and you're using the cycle scheme just to save money on a bike that you would have bought without it, go ahead and buy what your heart desires. If you're using the cycle scheme because you can't afford to buy a £3000 bike, set your budget to £1000 or less. An expensive bike won't make you any happier.

As you don't have a dealer near you, you're going to end up very unhappy when something goes wrong and there's nobody to fix it. All electric bikes need fixing sooner or later. Some can be fixed by yourself, but not many of the £3000 ones can, if any.

If you're going to buy mail order, you have to buy from someone that is specially set up to deal with warranty returns. Not many are set up for that, so your choice is limited.

For commuting and generally riding around, you don't need anything fancy. Something around £1000 will be more than capable. Thousands of people have such bikes and are very happy.

A cheaper bike is less likely to get nicked. Also, you don't cry so much when you scratch the frame, while struggling to get your massive D-lock around it.

Carbon forks are less comfy that other types. The reason they use carbon is because it's stiff. I have two bikes with carbon forks. One is better than the other, but neither can hold a light to the cheapest steel suspension forks that you get on £100 catalogue bikes when it comes to comfort.

I've been riding ebikes for 10 years. Part of that time I was working in a shop as an ebike mechanic. I've ridden just about every type of bike. They're all good. What I've learned is that expensive bikes are expensive to run. They go wrong just as much as cheap ones, if not more. All the fancy gizmos that they fit to bikes give the most trouble, so my advice is to use the KISS technique and keep everything simple if you want a long and happy ebiking experience.

Finally, thin 700c wheels/tyres are considerably more efficient that wide MTB tyres, but they can't really go off-road and are not so comfortable.

 

[Danidl]

I am a fan of the centre motor design as it gives an utterly authentic bionic cycling experience. .. you just feel stronger than you are. However I think that Andy is correct.. and a rear hub is the better choice for you. A rear hub is like always having the wind behind or going perpetually downhill.
I would recommend the butterfly or semi touring upright handlebars.
In addition weight is IRRELEVANT with an electric bike.
Weight reduction is very expensive, and the money is better spent on a bigger battery..espically with a hub motor. Other things to consider are hydraulic brakes and with your condition puncture resistance tyres and Slimed tubes

 

[Fandango]

Hi, I am very new to this all and just waiting for new Wisper bikes to arrive! Our budget was half of yours for each bike, but the main reason for purchasing is to get fitter and maintain my range of movement. I too have fibromyalgia and haven't ridden much since my 20s - I am 54 . For me the most important thing is comfort as if I am in one position too long, I'm stuck!
I was lucky enough to try a few bikes. I thought a Dutch style bike would be best, but when on it, the angled handle bars hurt my wrists too much. I can't tolerate lowered bars- too much pressure on shoulders, neck and hands. When getting confidence to actually ride again, using a standard bike, I found actual pedalling really hurt my feet for days after, for that reason I chose the cadence sensor rather than torque.
When I tried the Wisper 806 I could get into a really comfortable position, that had my joints in more neutral positions. The step through of the bike was manageable and got easier the more I tried it! Because we have a campervan we picked the folding option as then we don't need two carriers - one for van, one for car.
The day after trying it was really noticeable how much more comfortable I was than after being on the regular bike.
I am excited to get going and enjoy being out and about. We have got nearly everything sorted, except carrying the dog, and just need the bikes! Should be soon though.
It is a huge investment, and if your fibromyalgia is like mine (no one is the same though!) it is worth waiting or travelling to try them. We had a hours journey to get to the nearest dealer. My preconceptions were all wrong and I could have ended up with something that just made things worse.
Happy hunting, I'm sure you'll find something perfect for you!

 

[WheezyRider]

Personally, I wouldn't spend £3000 on an e-bike, especially not for a first bike.

For one thing, bike theft is rising like mad at the moment. Then, you are going into this almost blind and have no idea what works for you. Other people can give guidance, but preferences are very personal and they may not suit your needs.

Start with a relatively cheap bike, or do a conversion of a normal bike. You will learn a huge amount from it. £500 for a conversion, or up to £1000 for a decent shop bought e-bike.

You will probably also realise, actually I need two e-bikes, one for best and one for going to the shops (you don't want your £3000 bike to get pinched) or commuting on days where you know it's going to tip it down with rain and you don't want your best bike to get soaked and sprayed with crap.

 

[sjpt]

You will probably also realise, actually I need two e-bikes, one for best and one for going to the shops

I agree with that post, except you may realize you want two e-bikes, not that you need them.

Also as we have suggested you may be best suited to a cadence sensor; that will rule out almost all expensive bikes anyway.

 

[vfr400]

I agree with that post, except you may realize you want two e-bikes, not that you need them.

Also as we have suggested you may be best suited to a cadence sensor; that will rule out almost all expensive bikes anyway.

The number of ebikes you need is n+1, where n is the number you already have.

 

[WheezyRider]

I agree with that post, except you may realize you want two e-bikes, not that you need them.

Also as we have suggested you may be best suited to a cadence sensor; that will rule out almost all expensive bikes anyway.

Want and need are negotiable , in a world where particularly in the west, we have way too much stuff.

I think it's probably better to have two cheap/home built e-bikes that will last decades than one £3000 bike though, which when it breaks you know nothing about how to fix it and it will be so integrated and full of propitiatory gizmos that you basically have to dump it and get a new one. Plus it will be a thief magnet.

I often find, if you are tinkering with one, it will be offline and then you need the other to be operational (hence the n+1 argument! )

Then, one of the worst things for shortening the life of a bike is using it in bad weather. Crap gets into the gear chain etc etc, you get corrosion...before you know it, efficiency has dropped and things wear out quickly. I wish bikes could be made with better weather protection for their mechanicals.

 

[Ocsid]

Then, one of the worst things for shortening the life of a bike is using it in bad weather. Crap gets into the gear chain etc etc, you get corrosion...before you know it, efficiency has dropped and things wear out quickly. I wish bikes could be made with better weather protection for their mechanicals.

That particular challenge is readily solved with a quality hub gear and Gates Carbon belt drive. It brings other design restrains undoubtedly, some though, could be seen by owners as advantages in their own right, but nevertheless design restraints.
Without access to try several demonstrators of differing designs, it is IMO very risky territory to be into a multi thousand pound spend. I feel I agree if I could not get around that issue I would buy something cheaper to "learn" on, fully resigned to dump it when you have, or reserve it for use on that bad weather day.
I have the luxury of only taking a bike out when doing so is enjoyable, so buy what I enjoy using, rather than "need" to use.

 

[WheezyRider]

That particular challenge is readily solved with a quality hub gear and Gates Carbon belt drive. It brings other design restrains undoubtedly, some though, could be seen by owners as advantages in their own right, but nevertheless design restraints.
Without access to try several demonstrators of differing designs, it is IMO very risky territory to be into a multi thousand pound spend. I feel I agree if I could not get around that issue I would buy something cheaper to "learn" on, fully resigned to dump it when you have, or reserve it for use on that bad weather day.
I have the luxury of only taking a bike out when doing so is enjoyable, so buy what I enjoy using, rather than "need" to use.

Yes, rear hub gears are good and I've seen some good modern belt drives (back in the 19th century they even made bikes with a propshaft drive, all sealed in, but it didn't catch on). But in terms of e-bikes, if you have a geared rear hub, it means you then have to have mid drive or front wheel drive, which is not everyone's cup of tea. Maybe someday a hub gear rear hub motor will get made...perhaps we can persuade the likes of Rollhof...but it will cost a lot and probably be difficult to fix if it went wrong.

An example of why it's good to have two bikes is this week, my main bike suffered a broken spoke in the back wheel. So I can't ride it until I've picked up a new spoke and fitted it. In the mean time, I have the other bike to ride to the shop and pick up a spoke or two.

It's great if you just want to ride bikes for pleasure when the weather is good, but we need to get people off their car dependency. I think it's better to have a second bike than a second car.

 

[flecc]

back in the 19th century they even made bikes with a propshaft drive, all sealed in, but it didn't catch on

And in the 20th and 21st century!

Shaft drive bikes had a revival in th 1990s and member KirstinS has a shaft drive bike with hub gears and a front wheel motor.

 

[Woosh]

the time for hub gears is disappearing.
The only reason to have gears at all on an electric bike is because of the legislation stopping manufacturers turning e-bikes into low power motorbikes.
If you have a throttle, there is no need to change gear in the first place.
If you don't want to use the throttle then the controller can easily be programmed to adapt the assist level to the gradient.
Maintenance on e-bikes with hub motors is actually less than on normal bikes. You don't need to change chain and cassette for at least 5,000 miles. Hydraulic brakes need pad changing every 2,000 miles and they don't need much looking after either. A pair of Marathon Plus tyres and innertubes last 2,000 miles.

 

[WheezyRider]

the time for hub gears is disappearing.
The only reason to have gears at all on an electric bike is because of the legislation stopping manufacturers turning e-bikes into low power motorbikes.
If you have a throttle, there is no need to change gear in the first place.
If you don't want to use the throttle then the controller can easily be programmed to adapt the assist level to the gradient.
Maintenance on e-bikes with hub motors is actually less than on normal bikes. You don't need to change chain and cassette for at least 5,000 miles. Hydraulic brakes need pad changing every 2,000 miles and they don't need much looking after either. A pair of Marathon Plus tyres and innertubes last 2,000 miles.

I agree with you to a point, but:

1) legislation - how likely is it to change to allow twist and go?

2) With the legal assist limit at a fairly lame 15.5 mph, you still need gears if you want to go significantly faster than this.

3) What do you do when you have a flat battery/electrical failure?

 

[WheezyRider]

And in the 20th and 21st century!

Shaft drive bikes had a revival in th 1990s and member KirstinS has a shaft drive bike with hub gears and a front wheel motor.

View attachment 36444

Very nice

Front wheel drive is ok, but my personal preference is for rear wheel drive. In the wet and on ice/gravel etc it's a lot more reassuring having drive at the back.

 

[Woosh]

1) legislation - how likely is it to change to allow twist and go?

The throttle law applies to the trade, not to the users. It bans manufacturers to fit a twist and go throttle on new bikes. Throttles on kits and retrofit throttles are ignored. The law does not need changing on this.

2) With the legal assist limit at a fairly lame 15.5 mph, you still need gears if you want to go significantly faster than this.

When you exceed the speed limit, you are either on a downhill or on flat roads, you don't need to change gears.

3) What do you do when you have a flat battery/electrical failure?

you can still pedal, even single speed.
You don't really need gears when the hub motor can give 7 times more than your legs.

 

[Samcycles]

the time for hub gears is disappearing.
The only reason to have gears at all on an electric bike is because of the legislation stopping manufacturers turning e-bikes into low power motorbikes.
If you have a throttle, there is no need to change gear in the first place.
If you don't want to use the throttle then the controller can easily be programmed to adapt the assist level to the gradient.
Maintenance on e-bikes with hub motors is actually less than on normal bikes. You don't need to change chain and cassette for at least 5,000 miles. Hydraulic brakes need pad changing every 2,000 miles and they don't need much looking after either. A pair of Marathon Plus tyres and innertubes last 2,000 miles.

I remember reading somewhere about Bafang working on a mid motor shaft drive using Shimano hub gears that looked really good but I've never seen any bikes using it so maybe it never went into production.