Safer cycling? Don't get a helmet and cross red light

[Cyclezee]

Whenever we get these arguments, people always pick statistics that support their cause. You can prove nearly anything with the right statistics.

Any protection will give you more protection than nothing.

If a truck runs over your foot when you're wearing a helmet, you can be pretty sure that the helmet won't help you much; however, if you were wearing Totectors, it might not hurt so much. Plus, if you joined their Golden Shoe Club, and subsequently died from your squished foot, you would be able to claim the £10,000 insurance money.

Helmets have the additional benefit that they keep your head warm and can make you look more attractive, especially if you're folically challenged, but be careful: Many moons ago Motorcycle News did a survey that showed that motorcyclists were much more likely to go bald than the rest of the population, which they speculated was something to do with wearing helmets.

As it's too late for me to worry about that, I'm happy to wear my helmet most of the time. I don't want compulsion, but I would advise anybody to wear one. You can often get hardly used ones at car boot sales for £1 or not much more if you can't afford to pay £50 in a bike shop.

As I've said before, snowboarding ones are better than cycle ones. They don't look so daft, they offer more protection, and they don't let in wasps that make you crash.

Hi Dave,

Like what you say and wonder if you would still be giving your invaluable contributions if you hadn't been wearing a helmet at Bristol last year.

 

[Geebee]

The problem with protective garments on bicycles and motorcycles is that they have the surreptitious tendency to lull you into a feeling of false security, that you can take more risks because, heck, should anything happen you'll be fine, fine!

When they enforced helmets on motorcyclists deaths didn't go down and injuries actually went considerably up - because the riders were less cautious in all probability.

I know when I go out without my leathers on that I ride like a granny and then when fully suited and booted I ride like I stole it.

I don't wear a helmet on pushbikes and I constantly worry about crashing as I quite like my head this shape and take the necessary precautions to keep it that way

Any links to prove the statements about motorcyclists death rate whith helmets?
A quick search shows the exact opposite.

 

[tillson]

Being an owner of both types I can tell you the difference in the thickness of the polystyrene layer is nowhere near as large as you're portraying.

Without pulling one of my motorcycle helmets apart to measure exactly I'd say that the bicycle helmet is about two thirds that of a motorcycle helmet and the material used in both is the same - expanded polystyrene. It's actually a good material to use as it compresses well in any direction and as it compresses it spreads the force over a wider area than the impact area.

There's lots of good info on the net about it.

It is the foam layer to which I refer, not the polystyrene. The Polystyrene used in the manufacture of cycle helmets has very little compressibility and therefore offers little towards reducing g forces on impact.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hi Dave,

Like what you say Dave and wonder if you would still be giving your invaluable contributions if you hadn't been wearing a helmet at Bristol last year.

I hit the ground so hard that my brain was completely stewed for about a minute. There was a sizeable dent (compressed area) on the helmet, so it must've absorbed a lot of the impact. All I can say is thank you to Andrew (Oxygen) for lending me the helmet as I'd forgotten mine.

What people don't realise is that an accident can come from anywhere. One time, I was riding along a cycle path when the wheel picked up a twig, which wedged under the mudguard. It dragged the mudguard back on itself to jam the wheel instantly. I was only going slowly at about 10mph, but I was immediately catapaulted over the handlebars.

 

[Daz Marshall]

It is the foam layer to which I refer, not the polystyrene. The Polystyrene used in the manufacture of cycle helmets has very little compressibility and therefore offers little towards reducing g forces on impact.

Tilson, apologies you're very gravely mistaken - the polystyrene layer is what does the job in both motocycle and bicycle helmets.

Nice page here http://www.grantadesign.com/resources/materials/casestudies/helmet.htm

 

[Daz Marshall]

I hit the ground so hard that my brain was completely stewed for about a minute. There was a sizeable dent (compressed area) on the helmet, so it must've absorbed a lot of the impact. All I can say is thank you to Andrew (Oxygen) for lending me the helmet as I'd forgotten mine.

What people don't realise is that an accident can come from anywhere. One time, I was riding along a cycle path when the wheel picked up a twig, which wedged under the mudguard. It dragged the mudguard back on itself to jam the wheel instantly. I was only going slowly at about 10mph, but I was immediately catapaulted over the handlebars.

Amen. I still shudder when I remember back to being on the motorway on a motorbike and riding along behind an open-backed truck in the middle lane (it was busy and I was taking my time) and suddenly the truck passed over a 4 by 4 plank of wood just slightly narrower than the distance between it's tyres. God knows how I didn't crash and when I stopped to inspect my front wheel it has indented and cracked - no idea how the tyre hadn't gone down. PHEW!

 

[Daz Marshall]

Any links to prove the statements about motorcyclists death rate whith helmets?
A quick search shows the exact opposite.

http://www.righttoride.co.uk/2013/02/07/motorcycle-helmet-law/

 

[Cyclezee]

Amen. I still shudder when I remember back to being on the motorway on a motorbike and riding along behind an open-backed truck in the middle lane (it was busy and I was taking my time) and suddenly the truck passed over a 4 by 4 plank of wood just slightly narrower than the distance between it's tyres. God knows how I didn't crash and when I stopped to inspect my front wheel it has indented and cracked - no idea how the tyre hadn't gone down. PHEW!

Hi Daz,

Some on here would say it was your fault for not anticipating what might happen, they are the ones who can also dodge a random lightning strike or earthquake etc., etc.

 

[drsolly]

I've managed to dodge all lighting strikes and earthquakes. This is because I always waer my lucky helmet.

 

[drsolly]

Tilson, apologies you're very gravely mistaken - the polystyrene layer is what does the job in both motocycle and bicycle helmets.

Nice page here http://www.grantadesign.com/resources/materials/casestudies/helmet.htm

"standard impact-tests which are at constant velocity (5 m/s) onto rigid anvils"

To test bike helmets, they drop an anvil on it? I thought that was only in Tom and Jerry.

 

[flecc]

the ones who can also dodge a random lightning strike or earthquake etc., etc.

Actually these are also partly under ones control. Both earthquakes and lightning strikes vary by territory and environment, so lower risk choices can be made.

 

[Daz Marshall]

"standard impact-tests which are at constant velocity (5 m/s) onto rigid anvils"

To test bike helmets, they drop an anvil on it? I thought that was only in Tom and Jerry.

Haha! Now I want to watch Tom and Jerry!

 

[Cyclezee]

"standard impact-tests which are at constant velocity (5 m/s) onto rigid anvils"

To test bike helmets, they drop an anvil on it? I thought that was only in Tom and Jerry.

This reminds me of my previous career in Max Fac.
A French surgeon called Le Fort devised a method of classification of facial fractures by dropping blunt objects from fixed heights onto the skulls of cadavers, repudedy the blunt object was a cannonball.

I also remember spending half a weekend figuring out how to realign the jigsaw puzzle that was the maxilla and mandible of an off duty policeman who had brick lobbed through his windscreen whilst driving under a footbridge in Luton, how come he didn't anticipate what was about to happen and take evasive action

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I've managed to dodge all lighting strikes and earthquakes. This is because I always waer my lucky helmet.

I'd never thought of those advantages. Coming to think of it, I've never been struck by lightning while wearing my helmet either, so it must work as a lightning deflector. Also, it seems to work as protection against dangerous diseases because I've never caught HIV, hepatitis, scarlet fever or mumps while I've been wearing one, though I did get a headache once. When I was in hospital, there was a guy with Hepatitis. He'd never worn a cycle helmet. I bet he wished he had. I'll add these to my list of advantages

 

[Cyclezee]

I have no statistics to prove this, but I'm sure that that the vast majority of people die whilst not wearing a helmet.........case proven

 

[Daz Marshall]

lol

 

[flecc]

This reminds me of my previous career in Max Fac.

I didn't know you used to work for Max Factor John?

(Only teasing, I know you worked in the maxillofacial field reconstructing shattered and disease damaged faces.)

 

[tillson]

Tilson, apologies you're very gravely mistaken - the polystyrene layer is what does the job in both motocycle and bicycle helmets.

Nice page here http://www.grantadesign.com/resources/materials/casestudies/helmet.htm

Daz Marshall, I'm afraid that you have fallen victim to cycle helmet manufacturer's propagander.

I don't know which type of cycle helmets you have owned or examined, but every single one that I have seen is manufactured from a dense type of polystyrene which possesses nothing like sufficient compressibility to prevent dangerously high levels of g force in the event of an impact. I've never owned a motorbike helmet, so can't say how it is constructed. I do however use an aviation flying helmet which has a carbon fibre outer shell and about 65 mm of soft foam padding on the inside. This is what I'd expect to have in order to reduce impact g forces, and to suggest that a cycle helmet compresses similarly is laughable. I suspect that the material choice used for cycle helmets has everything to do with economies of manufacture and profit margins, with effectiveness languishing in third place or lower. You will see from my calculations earlier in this thread that even if the polystyrene could compress 5mm, which I doubt that it can, the g force on the brain at just 20 MPH is 580 g, which is going to kill you or leave you with a serious brain injury (Interesting that the propaganda which you linked to uses 10 MPH).

Don't confuse the polystyrene shell of a bicycle helmet with the sponge type lining found inside a motor cycle helmet (which I suspect is constructed in a similar way to a flying helmet). That sponge inside the motor cycle helmet is many times more compressible than the cycle helmet polystyrene and it is that greater compressibility which gives the protection against high g, and hence brain injury. That is why I carried out the same calculation with an assumed 50mm of compression. This reduces the g load from 580 g when wearing a cycle helmet to 80 g when wearing a motorcycle helmet (when impacting at 20 MPH).

I'm not denying that a cycle helmet may reduce the effect of a point load, but as far as brain damaging acceleration forces are concerned, they are next to useless.

It's easy to dredge up hog wash from the internet which is sponsored by groups a with vested interest. Try not to be so gullible. Instead rely on facts and learn a bit of basic science and mechanics, it does wonders for your understanding of how things work.

 

[tillson]

What people don't realise is that an accident can come from anywhere.

Now I have to disagree with this. I fly aircraft for a living and one of the most important and frequent elements of my training is something called Crew Resource Management or CRM. It's basically a study of air crashes and how human frailties contribute to them happening. Accidents do not come out of nowhere. They nearly always occur as a result of a highly traceable sequence of happenings which conspire to cause the event which we tend to call an accident. This process is sometimes called a Swiss cheese effect or, "the chain" when all the holes in the cheese line up, or if you don't break the chain, you are going to crash.

The most effective way to stay alive in aviation is to recognise that an accident doesn't just happen. You need to constantly scrutinise the situation and circumstances which surround you and identify a, "chain" forming, and then break it. For example, deteriorating weather, an unserviceable instrument and a pressing need to achieve a destination is a classic and obvious chain. It's easy to break this chain, turn back, divert, delay or repair. Others aren't quite as obvious.

You can use this methodology in everything that you do, including cycling. Being hyper self critical and admitting your own limitations is another good way to avoid the very identifiable sequence of events which we sometimes refer to as accidents.

 

[flecc]

100% agreed Tillson, something I've known all my life and which has kept me serious accident free and uninjured after 68 years on the roads.

It's just so sad that most still insist that "accidents just happen", so continue to suffer far too many of them and their often devastating after effects. I see this as somewhat akin to the Indian Hindu attitude that one's day of death is predetermined, so it matters not what one does on the roads meanwhile.

As I'm sure you've noticed, I always preach primary safety, not having the accident in the first place, but that usually gets a negative reaction from those who prefer to put their faith in the secondary safety of a helmet and continue to ride into avoidable accidents.
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