Road / track bike for newbie

[JuicyBike]

Will be very interested to hear more thoughts on the Bosch system. Indeed, an idea of a comparison between Bafang hub, Bafang mid position and the Bosch would be worth its weight in gold.

You should also consider the Aikema motor, which is a hub drive, very powerful, lightweight and silent. We've introduced it on our Roller bike and several other manufacturers are doing the same. Wisper use it on their Torque range, are based in Kent and would be worth a visit. Roller is now out of stock (again!) until the end of April.

 

[Woosh]

Whoosh - I'm hovering around 14st, a little over at the moment, hopefully soon to be a little under. Although the hill I was able to try on the Alamo was considerably less severe than the worst of the local ones, it wasn't insignificant and would normally require a fair amount of work, and it felt extremely easy with the motor. Superficially, the picture you posted looks different to the Alamo, there's some external components I don't see on their hub drive, but I could be misinterpreting. It sounds like I'm borderline between your motors, but is there another road-centric bike that you make that has the SWX02?

KG, as you know already, the weight recommendation is relative to our motor offerings. We fit the SWX02 to quite a few models in our range, mainly because our customers are mostly around 15st.
The new Woosh Rio mountain bike
Woosh Bermuda in 650B
Woosh Santana2 step through
Woosh Sport mtb
Zephyr 2017 folding

The Karoo has some nice components to help with preserving the feel of a road bike. The GXP crankset for example has a much lighter and much stiffer construction than square bracket cranksets and will never squeak. The Avid front and rear disc brakes give also more consistent performance than normal rim brakes.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

You should also consider the Aikema motor, which is a hub drive, very powerful, lightweight and silent. We've introduced it on our Roller bike and several other manufacturers are doing the same. Wisper use it on their Torque range, are based in Kent and would be worth a visit. Roller is now out of stock (again!) until the end of April.

Thanks Bob!

 

[Danidl]

Thanks all. d8veh - I don't quite follow that logic, in as much that I can take any bike, including an electric, for general maintenance to a local shop.

Whoosh - I'm hovering around 14st, a little over at the moment, hopefully soon to be a little under. Although the hill I was able to try on the Alamo was considerably less severe than the worst of the local ones, it wasn't insignificant and would normally require a fair amount of work, and it felt extremely easy with the motor. Superficially, the picture you posted looks different to the Alamo, there's some external components I don't see on their hub drive, but I could be misinterpreting. It sounds like I'm borderline between your motors, but is there another road-centric bike that you make that has the SWX02?

Danidl - the modified regular bike I use (bought for the staggering price a decade ago, new, of £88), isn't far off what I'm looking for, except electric. It's gearing is good both for steep uphills and powering on the straights / slight downhills. It has the most roadworthy tyres with little tread I could get, and it has bar ends. I've never gotten used to drop handlebars and that different riding position, and don't like the thought of cleats. So in other words - something at the road-end of a hybrid, as light as possible, is my dream bike.

The Alamo is about 19kg, which is - as you say - pretty much on the light side, and vastly preferable to me to many of the alternatives which could be anywhere between 25-30kg. Those bikes, it seems to me, are designed purely for electric power and not for any manual intervention, which isn't what I want. This possible Boardman / Brighton mod would be more like 17kg by my maths, another step in the right direction, but it might not be possible to evaluate how it will turn out. On the Alamo, I was able on favourable terrain / wind to be able to pedal fairly comfortably at 19-20mph, and surely a lot of the reason why is that the weight isn't too horrendous, along with the road tyres and gearing.

Will be very interested to hear more thoughts on the Bosch system. Indeed, an idea of a comparison between Bafang hub, Bafang mid position and the Bosch would be worth its weight in gold.

..The weight of the bike is of minor consequence, except to your perception. A light bike , with light weight rims will be highly responsive. A heavier bike will be. Less responsive. Eg your weight gets little change from 90kgs. A heavyweight bike might be 24kg , a lightweight non electric bike 10kgs... totals Overall difference 100 to 114 kg . A heavier bike will reduce acceleration, slow one down when climbing hills and put extra work on the brakes if stopping. But on a steady cycle with undulating ground, and not braking, the effect is minimal.
Wind and. Air resistance is the killer, not bike weight
The fact that you can cruise at 20mph might be due more to your relative youth.

 

[KentGuy]

Thanks again to you all. I'm after a regular step over bike really, so it would count our the Roller. The Wisper 905 looks like it has a lot going for it, but the weight puts me off. It looks like the Whoosh Karoo is closest to what I want from their range, but might be just a shade under-powered as I'm at the very top end of the weight recommendation, and there isn't an equivalent bike with the more powerful motor.

So far, from all the options you kind people have suggested, I think it's between the Kudos Stealth still, and a Boardman custom upgrade from Brighton eBikes.

Danidl - that all makes sense. Again, since I have a lot of hills round me, weight is indeed an issue. I should stress that I certainly don't average anything like 20mph btw - on my standard routes, it's between 12-14mph average depending on how fit I am (better in August than March!) and exactly how hilly the route is. Pedalling at 20mph+ is either a tailwind or a slight downhill, but its always fun when it happens...

 

[D8ve]

The whoosh recommendation is for people who struggle to do 6 mph if you hold 13 mph ave then the assistance will speed up your hill climb.
The big difference is the gears, have them and you can climb almost any hill.

 

[KentGuy]

That sounds more encouraging, D8ve. I may have to sort out a test ride of the Woosh somehow. Annoying all the prices have leapt up, Brexit I guess.

Essentially I want my cake and eat it. On a ride, I'll likely want to work up hills, but if I'm just going to the cinema over the hill, I'll be more likely to want to sit up and let the bike do the work. That hill is long but not too steep, so it's not a worst case scenario. Up my 14% horror hill, I'm usually down to an absolute crawl, 3-4mph, gawd it hurts. My wife says I'll miss the feeling of accomplishment when I make it up without stopping under my own steam and she's got a point, but I think I'll get over it you know.

 

[KentGuy]

Just an update on this - I've gone for the custom option. Bought a Boardman Team Hybrid in the end of line sale, and getting a Bafang mid-drive conversion done by Brighton ebikes, Sounds like the best thing for me - should hill climb very well and allow for some decent flat and downhill speeds with some effort from me. Thanks again for everyone's advice, I'll update this once the conversion is done towards the end of the month, all being well.

 

[Steve A]

Just an update on this - I've gone for the custom option. Bought a Boardman Team Hybrid in the end of line sale, and getting a Bafang mid-drive conversion done by Brighton ebikes, Sounds like the best thing for me - should hill climb very well and allow for some decent flat and downhill speeds with some effort from me. Thanks again for everyone's advice, I'll update this once the conversion is done towards the end of the month, all being well.

Good choice. i'm in Ashford, Kent and surrounded by hills, but people think Kent is flat

 

[KentGuy]

Good choice. i'm in Ashford, Kent and surrounded by hills, but people think Kent is flat

Quite - most of Kent is deceptively brutal in my experience!

There's a lot of pragmatism here. I know that I'm supposed to just keep pummelling away at the hills, and there's no doubt it gets easier if you keep at it. But after a lot of years of this, I think I found my limit, and it was relatively underwhelming.

It's psychologically difficult to think about losing the front cog in order to put the Bafang on it, like an admission of defeat. I've spent a weak riding the Boardman, and its lovely in many ways but actually won't let me climb as extreme gradients as my rattly, rusty old 27 gear. I figure you have to think about an electric bike differently though... rather than having a gear small enough to inch up a gradient from hell, its more about finding the combination of motor and gear that will allow me to still work hard if I want, but without the pain, and with (I do hope) a huge boost in speed. I get quite giddy at the thought of bombing up hills that I've only ever seen inch past.

Or, of course, I still want the option for me to sit back and enjoy the view as I climb if I fancy it. That's where those charts on the Woosh site were quite compelling (when I got my head around them - http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts ). If I understand it right, those 14% hills near me should be just fine in a low gear unassisted, whereas with a rear drive I'd always need to work pretty hard.

 

[Steve A]

Quite - most of Kent is deceptively brutal in my experience!

There's a lot of pragmatism here. I know that I'm supposed to just keep pummelling away at the hills, and there's no doubt it gets easier if you keep at it. But after a lot of years of this, I think I found my limit, and it was relatively underwhelming.

It's psychologically difficult to think about losing the front cog in order to put the Bafang on it, like an admission of defeat. I've spent a weak riding the Boardman, and its lovely in many ways but actually won't let me climb as extreme gradients as my rattly, rusty old 27 gear. I figure you have to think about an electric bike differently though... rather than having a gear small enough to inch up a gradient from hell, its more about finding the combination of motor and gear that will allow me to still work hard if I want, but without the pain, and with (I do hope) a huge boost in speed. I get quite giddy at the thought of bombing up hills that I've only ever seen inch past.

Or, of course, I still want the option for me to sit back and enjoy the view as I climb if I fancy it. That's where those charts on the Woosh site were quite compelling (when I got my head around them - http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts ). If I understand it right, those 14% hills near me should be just fine in a low gear unassisted, whereas with a rear drive I'd always need to work pretty hard.

Agree, good thought process. I've managed to find my happy medium battery / motor / gearing i.e Haibike 20t on front, shimano xt cassette 11-42 on rear, rs chip with Bosch 2016 motor. It gives me speeds on flat of up to 40 mph max (only for a few seconds mind you), but more importantly climb really well.

I've got rid of my road bike and mtb as this e-bike does it all. On hill and flats you can still really push yourself to maintain fitness.

 

[KentGuy]

Whoa, 40 on the flat - you mean with the motor?! Yikes!

My cassette is 11-32, so that's quite a bit below your 42, will have to see how it does. I guess there's always the option of changing the cassette later on if needs be, would be great to have that range. Mind you, our front cogs are totally different, the Bafang is 46, and my current setup is 50/34. Logically, compared to now I'm expecting a reduction in my top speed when pedalling (which is very high at the moment, I was touching 30 pedalling downhill today for a brief moment til a T junction spoiled my fun) and also at the bottom obviously quite a bit less.

 

[Steve A]

Whoa, 40 on the flat - you mean with the motor?! Yikes!

My cassette is 11-32, so that's quite a bit below your 42, will have to see how it does. I guess there's always the option of changing the cassette later on if needs be, would be great to have that range. Mind you, our front cogs are totally different, the Bafang is 46, and my current setup is 50/34. Logically, compared to now I'm expecting a reduction in my top speed when pedalling (which is very high at the moment, I was touching 30 pedalling downhill today for a brief moment til a T junction spoiled my fun) and also at the bottom obviously quite a bit less.

The ratios on the bosch motor gearing wise are somewhat different i.e. a front 20t chainring rotation is x2.5 so equivalent to a 50t, if you see what i mean. I like having the ability of higher speed, but generally go in eco / off mode at around the 20mph mark, which means i could get about 80 miles max out of a battery.

 

[KentGuy]

Ah gotya, Steve.

I'm curious to know what range I could get out of it - range isn't generally so much of a big deal for me, but it would be nice to occasionally to really take off somewhere.

 

[Steve A]

Ah gotya, Steve.

I'm curious to know what range I could get out of it - range isn't generally so much of a big deal for me, but it would be nice to occasionally to really take off somewhere.

Usually do a couple of micro adventures / bike packing each year. They involve a night out either campsite or ask permission and sleep in orchard middle of nowhere. Good fun, honest. Many times, i'll take my time and do a 60 miler, preplanned route. This could be from Ashford to say Dungerness, stopping in Rye etc.
Problem now is i really feel like i need new areas to cycle after cycling for last 15 years in Kent.

 

[KentGuy]

Hey I was in Rye last week! I recommend The Union for lunch next time you're in town there.

Something I've done once or twice is combine a one way bike ride with the train back, or just get the train to somewhere else of course. It all takes time though - part of this ebike thing for me is getting a lot more variety into, say, a 90 minute ride. There are so many really nice looking routes really very near me that open up once I'm not confined to a single big hill on the route, but I guess I'll exhaust them all eventually!

 

[awol]

and use a 201 rpm Q100C motor at 2.2kg, and your whole kit would only weigh 4kg, which would give you a 14kg bike.

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2014-C3-P43C.22CTS

Is that Q100C motor the same (powerwise) as the Q100H 250RPM sold by BMSB (apart from the cst/freewheel) and even at only 2.5kg would you know if it/they would have the power to push a 10stone person without pedalling at about 22mph?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Is that Q100C motor the same (powerwise) as the Q100H 250RPM sold by BMSB (apart from the cst/freewheel) and even at only 2.5kg would you know if it/they would have the power to push a 10stone person without pedalling at about 22mph?

I ran a basic Q100 on my Dahon. With 12S lipos, it would drag my 100kg along undulating roads at about 22 mph without pedalling. This was the 24v 201 rpm one, which makes it 360 rpm at 44v. It's the speed it spins in the small wheel that gives it it's power. Power = torque times rotational speed, so the same motor will make double the power (without stress) if you can make it spin twice as fast.

The Q100H has a bigger reduction ratio, which makes the rotor spin faster, and hence gives it the greater power. IIRC, the Q100C has the same gearing as the basic Q100. It'll be pretty good in a light-weight build with a 10st rider, but much better to go with a low speed one over-volted because the rotor will spin faster.

I'm not sure how wise it would be to use a Q100C all the time without pedalling. If no pedalling is your goal, you want a more robust motor like the Bafang BPM or CST.

 

[KentGuy]

Just to say I got my Boardman Team Hybrid converted by Brighton eBikes a few weeks ago, and I've put an unreasonably long review up here - http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/boardman-team-hybrid-custom-fitted-with-a-bafang-bbs01b-by-brighton-ebikes.27683/