Road / track bike for newbie

KentGuy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 26, 2017
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19
57
Kent
Hi all, new to all this e-bike business. Have been riding a cheap hybrid regular bike, converted to be as road-worthy as possible, for about 10 years. I ride to help fitness usually between 10-15 mile rides I guess - and to get in and out of town. I'm pretty a fair weather rider, in truth.

Started thinking about an e-bike recently as they're building a new genuinely useful cycle path near me over a moderate hill that ends - oh yeah - in my beloved cinema. I could cycle it fine but it wouldn't be any fun at all, hence the e-bike thought - arriving at the cinema not needing a shower. Then I thought... hold on, that means I can explore so much more of the countryside on an 1hr ride, still putting in some effort but not being so restricted to one 14% evil hill, which is about my limit even when I'm as close to match fit as I seem to get.

So I'm looking for an e-bike that can function as a regular bike, geared for road riding, as light as possible. I've test-ridden two bikes so far. The first was the Eco-Expedition, a mountain bike. This was really impressively put together I thought, but in the end I couldn't escape the obvious thought that I didn't want a mountain bike. It was fun to ride, but I'd run out of speed when peddling at about 18-19mph in top gear. Fun stopped. When I added up the bill to change the gearing, tyres etc, it was touching an extra £300... and it would still ultimately be a mountain bike. Also the battery and motor seemed to be unbranded.

Next was the Kudos Stealth (or rather the Alamo - same bike, different colour). This was more like it - I was able to pedal down a gentle downhill doing nearer 25. Yippee. I was worried I'd miss the 3 cogs on the front - the Stealth is an 8 speed - but I figured that this was unlikely to be a real world problem, since the lowest gear with a low-moderate assist would still be fine up hill, and it was well geared for flats and downhills. It was hard to put my finger on it, but it somehow didn't feel quite as slickly integrated as the Eco Expedition, though it could just be a case of getting used to it.

Two reservations. 1 - on literally the day I went to buy, the price on e-bikes went up £60. Grr. Do these things come up in sales? 2 - the semi-integrated Samsung battery is really slick, but I'm concerned that if I need a replacement in a couple of years it will be impossible to find. I haven't seen this exact battery anywhere else, and obviously it looks pretty specific.

Meanwhile, the chaps at the local cycle shop basically said "don't bother unless you're spending £2k with a Bosch system", which - however predicable the advice to spend a lot more money - sowed a further seed of doubt. Is spending double on a Bosch system really so much better than a Bafang? Looking around, the £2k bikes don't seem significantly lighter, one of the things I really do care about. And are my battery longevity fears unfounded? Kudos seem to have a good reputation - I'm still close to pulling the trigger, but grateful for any input from you fine informed folks here, thanks.
 
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soundwave

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KentGuy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 26, 2017
22
19
57
Kent
Again, nice - down to just over 2x the price, and there's no mention of weight (the Raleighs are the same - it's literally the first information I look for). All my questions remain though - in the real world, how much of a difference is there between the Giant and the Kudos? I'd expect more refinement in the integration of the electric side of course, but is it really transformative? Would it be a better bet for battery replacement etc long term?

I should stress, btw, that when I say a road bike, I mean a bike for use on the road. I don't necessarily want drop handlebars, cleats etc.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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wooshbikes.co.uk
2 - the semi-integrated Samsung battery is really slick, but I'm concerned that if I need a replacement in a couple of years it will be impossible to find. I haven't seen this exact battery anywhere else, and obviously it looks pretty specific.
The Woosh Rio MTB has the same battery but in 13AH. Price: £250 for a spare battery.



Also, take a look at the Woosh Karoo, it has 13AH or 15AH HL battery. Optional mudguards and rack.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?karoo
 
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You don't have to worry about the battery becoming obsolete because there's people that will refurbish/upgrade it when the time comes.

Those Bosch bikes are great as mountain bikes for off-road stuff, but they have very little advantage if any on normal tarmac roads.

Probably the best way to get what you want is to get a nice hybrid, like the Boardman, and stick your own motor in it, or get a used roadbike, swap the handlebars for straight ones and fit your own motor kit. it's not very difficult.

Get Jimmy to make you up a 325 watt-hour 26 cell Panasonic GA cell battery at 1.3kg and use a 201 rpm Q100C motor at 2.2kg, and your whole kit would only weigh 4kg, which would give you a 14kg bike.

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2014-C3-P43C.22CTS

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2016-3F-39N8.50CQE
 

D8ve

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Jan 30, 2013
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Do what D8veh said ^^^^
 
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KentGuy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 26, 2017
22
19
57
Kent
Thanks all. Now, hold my hand a little here... I'm essentially useless at basic bike maintenance - I'm pretty good at pumping up the tyres, and that's about it. So clearly if I went for a custom thing, I would need someone to do it all. Is that what Jimmy does? I'm probably the only one here who doesn't know who he is, but I don't know who he is...

The Whoosh looks nice enough, but is it a road bike?
 

soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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insat / jimmy makes custom battery packs so you can recell the case if and when you wanted with the cells you want in the pack.

tho a replacement batt for the whoosh ect is around 2-300 quid.

a 500w bosch one is 700 and a yamaha 500w is 850.
 
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KentGuy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 26, 2017
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19
57
Kent
Thanks soundwave. So is there a person / company that puts together custom conversions?

And thanks Woosh. Looks very nice actually, but I'm a little put off by mention on your site and review that steeper hills aren't so good for it. It was only a moderate hill I was able to try with the Kudos, but it seemed to fly up it easily. Certainly I'd be using it on hilly terrain.
 

soundwave

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KentGuy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 26, 2017
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Kent
Thanks again soundwave - that does look interesting. Not sure if I calculated everything here, but their conversion kit and battery is 6.3kg. A Boardman Hybrid Team is 10.5kg, and on sale at £500, so it's about £1.4k all in, and a couple of kg lighter than the Kudos. And much better than the Kudos you think?

I see this is mid as opposed to hub drive - is this significantly better? Curious to know why if so.
 

Steve A

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Aug 28, 2016
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Thanks all. Now, hold my hand a little here... I'm essentially useless at basic bike maintenance - I'm pretty good at pumping up the tyres, and that's about it. So clearly if I went for a custom thing, I would need someone to do it all. Is that what Jimmy does? I'm probably the only one here who doesn't know who he is, but I don't know who he is...

The Whoosh looks nice enough, but is it a road bike?
If your that bad at bike maintenance then i'd spend more if you can and get the Giant from a local dealer as you will need good customer service and warranty. The cheaper stuff is all fine and well, but you need some knowledge.
 
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Deleted member 4366

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All bikes need adjustments and maintenance, which means that your only choice is to buy from a local dealer if you can't do it yourself.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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wooshbikes.co.uk
And thanks Woosh. Looks very nice actually, but I'm a little put off by mention on your site and review that steeper hills aren't so good for it. It was only a moderate hill I was able to try with the Kudos, but it seemed to fly up it easily. Certainly I'd be using it on hilly terrain.
KG, the motor on the Karoo is the Bafang SWXH, I think the Alamo uses the same motor. The comparison is relative to our range of bikes which cater mainly for the traditionally built. Our other bikes use larger motors. We recommend the SWXH for up to 14st, the mid size SWX02 for up to 16st and the BPM 17st and above, All these motors are from Bafang.

This is a close-up picture of the Karoo's motor:

 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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Hi all, new to all this e-bike business. Have been riding a cheap hybrid regular bike, converted to be as road-worthy as possible, for about 10 years. I ride to help fitness usually between 10-15 mile rides I guess - and to get in and out of town. I'm pretty a fair weather rider, in truth.

Started thinking about an e-bike recently as they're building a new genuinely useful cycle path near me over a moderate hill that ends - oh yeah - in my beloved cinema. I could cycle it fine but it wouldn't be any fun at all, hence the e-bike thought - arriving at the cinema not needing a shower. Then I thought... hold on, that means I can explore so much more of the countryside on an 1hr ride, still putting in some effort but not being so restricted to one 14% evil hill, which is about my limit even when I'm as close to match fit as I seem to get.

So I'm looking for an e-bike that can function as a regular bike, geared for road riding, as light as possible. I've test-ridden two bikes so far. The first was the Eco-Expedition, a mountain bike. This was really impressively put together I thought, but in the end I couldn't escape the obvious thought that I didn't want a mountain bike. It was fun to ride, but I'd run out of speed when peddling at about 18-19mph in top gear. Fun stopped. When I added up the bill to change the gearing, tyres etc, it was touching an extra £300... and it would still ultimately be a mountain bike. Also the battery and motor seemed to be unbranded.

Next was the Kudos Stealth (or rather the Alamo - same bike, different colour). This was more like it - I was able to pedal down a gentle downhill doing nearer 25. Yippee. I was worried I'd miss the 3 cogs on the front - the Stealth is an 8 speed - but I figured that this was unlikely to be a real world problem, since the lowest gear with a low-moderate assist would still be fine up hill, and it was well geared for flats and downhills. It was hard to put my finger on it, but it somehow didn't feel quite as slickly integrated as the Eco Expedition, though it could just be a case of getting used to it.

Two reservations. 1 - on literally the day I went to buy, the price on e-bikes went up £60. Grr. Do these things come up in sales? 2 - the semi-integrated Samsung battery is really slick, but I'm concerned that if I need a replacement in a couple of years it will be impossible to find. I haven't seen this exact battery anywhere else, and obviously it looks pretty specific.

Meanwhile, the chaps at the local cycle shop basically said "don't bother unless you're spending £2k with a Bosch system", which - however predicable the advice to spend a lot more money - sowed a further seed of doubt. Is spending double on a Bosch system really so much better than a Bafang? Looking around, the £2k bikes don't seem significantly lighter, one of the things I really do care about. And are my battery longevity fears unfounded? Kudos seem to have a good reputation - I'm still close to pulling the trigger, but grateful for any input from you fine informed folks here, thanks.
... My advice may differ from some of the experts.
1.Decide whether you want a roadracing bike or a trekking type bike or the more specialised mountain bike. There is a significant cost difference and trekking bikes are ideal for tarmac roads, gravel paths and towpaths they are not good on muck, grass etc. Because mountain bikes are used under more extreme conditions, they are more robust and have more expensive parts. A trekking type bike will be more comfortable, upright stance and probably slower. A road racing bike can be extremely expensive as efforts to keep the weight down by using exotic materials are costly. A trekking bike will probably be sold with lights carrier and mudguards and maybe even a lock.

2. In comparison with an ordinary bike an ebike is typically 3 times more expensive. Eg a 200 £ ordinary bike will have a similar standard of equipment and finish as a 600£ ebike.

3. All ebikes are heavy in comparison, as they have a battery and a motor. So 20kg would be a light ebike.. Weight is not as significant because the motor compensates and you probably put on more weight over holidays. Weight is only of signings when you are lugging the beast up stairs or into a bus storage compartment....
4. The Bosch central drive system on trekking bikes is simply lovely, a personal view certainly but in my opinion well worth the extra, if you can afford it.
5. The 25km.hr assist speed , which is the legal limit is in my opinion pretty fast and if you use dongles etc to gain power assist above that, your battery consumption rockets. . You are still entitled to travel faster than that, but without the power assist. I have achieved 50km.hr , downhill on such a trekking Bosch bike Motus 2k bike
6. The battery range you get will depend on the speed you go at, so if you were to average 27km hr , the battery would last indefinitely, whereas at an average of 20kmhr it will be much less... ( On a legal bike).
 
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KentGuy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 26, 2017
22
19
57
Kent
Thanks all. d8veh - I don't quite follow that logic, in as much that I can take any bike, including an electric, for general maintenance to a local shop.

Whoosh - I'm hovering around 14st, a little over at the moment, hopefully soon to be a little under. Although the hill I was able to try on the Alamo was considerably less severe than the worst of the local ones, it wasn't insignificant and would normally require a fair amount of work, and it felt extremely easy with the motor. Superficially, the picture you posted looks different to the Alamo, there's some external components I don't see on their hub drive, but I could be misinterpreting. It sounds like I'm borderline between your motors, but is there another road-centric bike that you make that has the SWX02?

Danidl - the modified regular bike I use (bought for the staggering price a decade ago, new, of £88), isn't far off what I'm looking for, except electric. It's gearing is good both for steep uphills and powering on the straights / slight downhills. It has the most roadworthy tyres with little tread I could get, and it has bar ends. I've never gotten used to drop handlebars and that different riding position, and don't like the thought of cleats. So in other words - something at the road-end of a hybrid, as light as possible, is my dream bike.

The Alamo is about 19kg, which is - as you say - pretty much on the light side, and vastly preferable to me to many of the alternatives which could be anywhere between 25-30kg. Those bikes, it seems to me, are designed purely for electric power and not for any manual intervention, which isn't what I want. This possible Boardman / Brighton mod would be more like 17kg by my maths, another step in the right direction, but it might not be possible to evaluate how it will turn out. On the Alamo, I was able on favourable terrain / wind to be able to pedal fairly comfortably at 19-20mph, and surely a lot of the reason why is that the weight isn't too horrendous, along with the road tyres and gearing.

Will be very interested to hear more thoughts on the Bosch system. Indeed, an idea of a comparison between Bafang hub, Bafang mid position and the Bosch would be worth its weight in gold.