Riding on sand - front hub motor?

[z0mb13e]

It's that time of year again when bmth prom (part of my daily commute) suffers from a regular coating of wind blown and rain soaked sand. For the most part it is cleared off regularly but there are patches that neither Poole nor Bournemouth councils seem to want to take responsibility for and they usually remain sandy for the best part of the winter.

Sometimes it remains firm enough to ride, sometimes it gets washed away by rain or dries out and blows away but occasionally it builds up to a few inches deep and the wheels sink in and skid all over the place. I have found that standing up on the pedels and using the throttle is the best way to get across it.

I've still got a while before I think about getting another ebike but while it is on my mind I was wondering if anyone had any advice or experience of riding a front hub motor bike on sand and how it compares to a rear hub motor?

 

[Phil the drill]

Hi
Having used both front and rear drive motor e-bikes in the past I would say that for the purposes you describe a front wheel motor would be more stable. You have true 'all wheel drive' (you via the rear wheel; motor on the front). You will find that, provided you use a sensitive touch, the prospect of 'losing the front' a lot less likely.
I've ridden off-road motorbikes for many years, over all sorts of frankly pretty awful stuff and despite the definite bias of forum members to rear wheel drive bicycles, I would say that on very poor off road surfaces you will be much more likely to remain upright on a front drive bike. You need to get a feel for using the pedals to balance the drive to the rear wheels. There's a knack to it, but it's not that hard to do.
Phil

 

[flecc]

despite the definite bias of forum members to rear wheel drive bicycles, I would say that on very poor off road surfaces you will be much more likely to remain upright on a front drive bike.

I'm a rear motor fan for general use, but on loose unstable surfaces like sand, gravel or pebbles, the traction advantages of a front motor and two wheel traction are undeniable as Phil indicates. Just don't be heavy-handed with the power on loose surfaces if it's a powerful motor.
.

 

[OTH]

I'm a rear motor fan for general use, .......

Why is this, please?

 

[Mussels]

Schwalbe big Apples run at low pressure are favoured by beach riders, spreads the load and rides well on tarmac.

 

[z0mb13e]

Thanks all.

I did think about changing the tyres but the sand is only patchy (say no more than 10 meters long at any one spot) and the majority is tarmac and I am loath to change the Marathon Pluses as they are only recently on.

It's going to be the height of summer before I buy another ebike, but I am drawn to the Whisper 906 Alfine so it is good to think that it will cope (potentially) better with its front hub motor than the 905 (which does an admirable job by the way) with its rear motor, when faced with sand.

I am also hopeful that the sealed bottom bracket and internal gearing would cut down on the amount of maintenance required to ride in an abrasive and corrosive environment.

 

[flecc]

Why is this, please?

I prefer the rear traction on the steepest hills when with some bikes, motors and surfaces, traction can be lost. With one of my rear hub-motor bikes I wheelie taking off up a 1 in 4 hill but that front lifting would give a front motor no chance of gripping.

I also tow heavy trailers and that exacerbates those problems then.

I also prefer the stability and more responsive steering that comes with a light front on a bike, rear weight having hardly any effect.

Finally, front weight can lead to discomfort up into the handlebars as the weight throws upwards over road bumps. Weight at the rear is opposed by the rider's weight which keeps it under control.

So overall my preference is centre motor transmission drive or rear hub motor.
.

 

[z0mb13e]

The loss of traction would be a concern if I was riding up steep hills on loose or slippery ground.

Flecc, have you ever experienced a loss of traction on a front hub motor on a wet tarmac hill when not towing?

My personal preference is for a rear hub motor, though it does seem intuitive to think that the front wheel pulling would drag the bike along and with both wheels turning, provide a decent amount of traction - that or it could all go horribly pear shaped with both wheels letting go... I think I will have to try and arrange a week long test ride next year...

 

[flecc]

Flecc, have you ever experienced a loss of traction on a front hub motor on a wet tarmac hill when not towing?

Only on that 1 in 4, the angle prompting the bike to try to wheelie due to the weight distribution (me on top). The front wheel snatched with intermittent grip. I wouldn't call it a problem though, it's more a problem on very loose surfaces (stony bridlepath), the wheel skipping about.
.

 

[Northern Irelander]

Hi
Having used both front and rear drive motor e-bikes in the past I would say that for the purposes you describe a front wheel motor would be more stable. You have true 'all wheel drive' (you via the rear wheel; motor on the front). You will find that, provided you use a sensitive touch, the prospect of 'losing the front' a lot less likely.
I've ridden off-road motorbikes for many years, over all sorts of frankly pretty awful stuff and despite the definite bias of forum members to rear wheel drive bicycles, I would say that on very poor off road surfaces you will be much more likely to remain upright on a front drive bike. You need to get a feel for using the pedals to balance the drive to the rear wheels. There's a knack to it, but it's not that hard to do.
Phil

The FWD works better because the front drives and the rear wheel is pulled through the sand. Pushing any dead weight or free rolling weight through sand will have a mind of its own due to loose traction.

Being a former off road biker, I prefer RWD when it comes to loads of power/torque at the wheel in sand, but only with paddle tyres.
Eurosport used to show epic videos of motoX bikes on massive sand dunes
If anything the rooster tail should be at the back

 

[Mussels]

The loss of traction would be a concern if I was riding up steep hills on loose or slippery ground.

Flecc, have you ever experienced a loss of traction on a front hub motor on a wet tarmac hill when not towing?

I did this morning, set off from the lights up a slight gradient and the front wheel momentarily span on a road marking. This is not enough to worry me but am a little concerned what will happen when I ride over ice, I need the little bit of grip the front has to keep me upright. I'll let you know in a few weeks time.

 

[Old Timer]

It's that time of year again when bmth prom (part of my daily commute) suffers from a regular coating of wind blown and rain soaked sand. For the most part it is cleared off regularly but there are patches that neither Poole nor Bournemouth councils seem to want to take responsibility for and they usually remain sandy for the best part of the winter.

Sometimes it remains firm enough to ride, sometimes it gets washed away by rain or dries out and blows away but occasionally it builds up to a few inches deep and the wheels sink in and skid all over the place. I have found that standing up on the pedels and using the throttle is the best way to get across it.

I've still got a while before I think about getting another ebike but while it is on my mind I was wondering if anyone had any advice or experience of riding a front hub motor bike on sand and how it compares to a rear hub motor?

No problem this end on my Powertrek, 250Watt rear geared Barfang and Alien front wheel 250Watt conversion. Use both on throttle only for nice fine balance