Rides illegal machine - kills pedestrian & blames her........

[flecc]

In this, and the other fatality case, neither were attributed to speed being the cause of the accident.

The cause of the accidents is a red herring, I haven't claimed that of course, speed was the cause of the deaths.

That's why The Netherlands with the highest rate of cycling in the world and invariably riding without helmets has the lowest rate of cycling accidents and deaths. They predominantly amble along at moderate speeds, as we once used to.
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[LeighPing]

The cause of the accidents is a red herring, I haven't claimed that of course, speed was the cause of the deaths.

That's why The Netherlands with the highest rate of cycling in the world and invariably riding without helmets has the lowest rate of cycling accidents and deaths. They predominantly amble along at moderate speeds.
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Impact was the reason why they suffered the injuries that killed them. Speed, slow or fast is always a factor. The NL is a biking country with no hills and they wear clogs.

 

[flecc]

Impact was the reason why they suffered the injuries that killed them. Speed, slow or fast is always a factor. The NL is a biking country with no hills and they wear clogs.

As ever, anything but face the fact that doubling the speed greatly increases both the incidence of cycling accidents and their consequences.
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[soundwave]

if all im going to get is 6 months holiday in prison ill run them over they can move or die im not bothered either way.

they soon move there ass tho when charging at them going 30mph in the middle of town

 

[LeighPing]

As ever, anything but face the fact that doubling the speed greatly increases both the incidence of cycling accidents and their consequences.
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As I've said, whether slow or fast, 'speed' is always a factor. There are many factors in every crash scenario. Had either of them actually been on an ebike, they'd be more focussed, they wouldn't be working too hard, possibly as fatigued or even too worried about losing their accrued, hard earned speed. As it's easily replaced by the motor. Their motors would cut off and ebike brakes are generally good. They've a heavier weight than most to stop.

Sometimes a little bit of speed can be useful in avoiding an accident. Had I been going slower, I might have hurt this dog.

 

[soundwave]

As I've said, whether slow or fast, 'speed' is always a factor. There are many factors in every crash scenario. Had either of them actually been on an ebike, they'd be more focussed, they wouldn't be working too hard, possibly as fatigued or even too worried about losing their accrued, hard earned speed. As it's easily replaced by the motor. Their motors would cut off and ebike brakes are generally good. They've a heavier weight than most to stop.

Sometimes a little bit of speed can be useful in avoiding an accident. Had I been going slower, I might have hurt this dog.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/cyclist-agrees-65000-settlement-after-horror-crash-caused-by-dogs-retractable-lead-a3124006.html

you missed a pay day there lol.

 

[LeighPing]

you missed a pay day there lol.

I'm in no rush to suffer life changing injuries.

 

[soundwave]

get some body armour then and fly round town like a ufo.

they soon shift there ass

 

[LeighPing]

get some body armour then and fly round town like a ufo.

they soon shift there ass

Flecc's generally right you know. I'm just representing an alternative argument.

 

[soundwave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41212147

RideLondon: Pedestrian dies from injuries after race collision

 

[the_killjoy]

I was in Pisa recently and the pavements and squares were full of a mix of pedestrians and cyclists which were happily coexisting, the point was ~ as Flecc has pointed out above ~ that the cyclists were not speeding or expecting the pedestrians to get out of their way.

 

[LeighPing]

I was in Pisa recently and the pavements and squares were full of a mix of pedestrians and cyclists which were happily coexisting, the point was ~ as Flecc has pointed out above ~ that the cyclists were not speeding or expecting the pedestrians to get out of their way.

Yes, of course. We should all give way and coexist respectfully.

All pushbikes can coexist with pedestrians at any speed, and recent events have definitely raised biking safety awareness. Flecc is right in what he is saying. "The very few times I've indulged in higher speeds has only been in the safest possible known circumstances."

However, the times have moved on since the 50's and almost all pushbikes can reach 20 mph. Many can exceed that, as you all know. Common road sense should still prevail. Safety should always be catered for and, even though it's still 70 mph on the UK motorways, we should build our engines to be able to go much faster for safety reasons.

Personally, I don't use a dongle. I assume that they're fitted because 15.5 mph is just too slow for the modern age and that they are used to increase to a safer speed when required. It doesn't mean that you have to do that speed when it's clearly unsafe due to oblivious pedestrian traffic.

 

[flecc]

However, the times have moved on since the 50's and almost all pushbikes can reach 20 mph.

Pushbikes haven't changed at all in this respect, they could just as easily do 20 mph then. And our power assisted bikes back then which had small petrol auxiliary motors were potentially much faster than today's e-bikes, 20 mph plus.

What has changed is common riding speed, and it's a British phenomenon, routinely riding at 20mph or more, even near to pedestrians, which I regard as very bad manners. I strongly disagree with this comment of yours:

"All pushbikes can coexist with pedestrians at any speed"

They can't, as the original subject of this thread shows. Suddenly faced with a fast moving bike, pedestrians can be confused and react unpredictably, stepping the wrong way, as the lady who was killed did.

We've now had three pedestrians and one cyclist killed in the last two or so months in pedestrian/cyclist collisions, all with riders travelling at speed. They would all be alive now if the cyclists had had the sense to slow right down while close to a pedestrian.

And I do mean slow down, personally I slow to near walking pace as I pass close, but in countries where cycling and walking are done together on a common space like a footpath etc., there's usually a limit or general acceptance of no more than 8 mph. People don't get killed at that speed.
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[LeighPing]

"All pushbikes can coexist with pedestrians at any speed". I believe that. I just don't believe that pedestrians can do the same yet. They need to start giving heightened consideration to their surroundings when they're in shared biking areas. Walking in straight lines, not stepping out into the road and then looking for oncoming, generally silent traffic..

We all have to learn to evolve to the new dangers within society. Electric cars will be here soon enough.

 

[soundwave]

"All pushbikes can coexist with pedestrians at any speed". I believe that. I just don't believe that pedestrians can do the same yet. They need to start giving heightened consideration to their surroundings when they're in shared biking areas. Walking in straight lines, not stepping out into the road and then looking for oncoming, generally silent traffic..

We all have to learn to evolve to the new dangers within society. Electric cars will be here soon enough.

cant wait to dongle/hack one of those

 

[anotherkiwi]

I have just upgraded from a 19th century bike to a 20th century bike (check Wikipedia) and have rediscovered the joy of riding slowly. And the joy of going much faster than on a 19th century bike with much less effort. Slow when on the mixed pedestrian/cycle path if only for the scenery (think recumbent height and pretty young ladies legs...). And... Hoping to join the 50+ club ASAP on the open road

 

[Zlatan]

I was in Pisa recently and the pavements and squares were full of a mix of pedestrians and cyclists which were happily coexisting, the point was ~ as Flecc has pointed out above ~ that the cyclists were not speeding or expecting the pedestrians to get out of their way.

Perhaps they need a soundwave ?

 

[flecc]

"All pushbikes can coexist with pedestrians at any speed". I believe that. I just don't believe that pedestrians can do the same yet. They need to start giving heightened consideration to their surroundings when they're in shared biking areas. Walking in straight lines, not stepping out into the road and then looking for oncoming, generally silent traffic.

And until or if ever pedestrians reach that level of skills, we just carry on killing them?

That is totally unacceptable.

Until they do reach that level of skills we should be accommodating them by travelling at safe speeds when close.
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[Benjahmin]

Recently I was cycling a local narrow lane. Land sloped steeply from left to right, forested. Up ahead, on an incline, I saw a solitary female jogger, a rarity hereabouts, running on the right hand side of the lane, with a very steep unfenced slope down on her right. At some 25 yards I eased off and rang my bell (a loud Pashley 'ding dong' bell), I saw her head partially turn to the left. Good, I thought, she heard. When I came into her peripheral vision she spooked and nearly went down the slope. She had in ear headphones in!

If one cuts oneself off from the enviroment that is being inhabited, then 'nasty' surprises will ensue.

This is true for all of us. I try to ride defensively (eye contact etc) for my own safety, always looking around and listening.
The victim, in the original story, was said to be looking at her 'phone, distracted. The cyclist, seeing this, should have behaved accordingly for his own safety as well as hers.

We humans have two remote sensing abilities for a reason. To deliberately disable either, by choice, is to put oneself and others in danger.

 

[LeighPing]

And until or if ever pedestrians reach that level of skills, we just carry on killing them?

That is totally unacceptable.

Until they do reach that level of skills we should be accommodating them by travelling at safe speeds when close.
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Yes. We kill them when they make unfortunate mistakes. They're sometimes avoidable and the biker isn't always to blame. The distance between kill-zone and kerb is nought but a heartbeat away. Stepping into the road without stopping, looking and listening first is a deadly endeavour.

If one cuts oneself off from the enviroment that is being inhabited, then 'nasty' surprises will ensue.

Earphones and headphones are as good as being blinkered. Even so, you were still ready for the worst. Well anticipated.

The music in this video was coming from my mp3 player. I have horns and bells too. But, even so, the guy didn't know that I was behind him for quite some time and distance. At one point, sounding my bell, I intended to overtake him. He didn't hear me. So, I didn't bother. He wouldn't have heard dogs, kids, or other road users either. His speed? Well, you tell me?

The victim, in the original story, was said to be looking at her 'phone, distracted. The cyclist, seeing this, should have behaved accordingly for his own safety as well as hers.

We humans have two remote sensing abilities for a reason. To deliberately disable either, by choice, is to put oneself and others in danger.

Agreed of course. It would have been a good start if he'd had a serviceable bike too. One with two functional brakes. Did he ever test them? Does anyone? I do..