Review of Kalkhoff ProConnect S.

[Tiberius]

So are we going to see one of these bikes on the Ching Challenge 100 mile ride?

Nick

 

[musicbooks]

Good point John, any idea what's next?

Maybe a BikeTech Flyer THS or theres the Izip Dolphin, rather like the Swizzbee and the same designer?
.

I hear Fisher Price do a half decent e-tractor, John
bw
musicbooks

 

[simonbarnett]

Goodwood Festival of Speed on TV at eight o'clock, the fastest vehicles of most types on display and demonstration.

So Dynamic, John and Simon, which one of you will represent the high speed e-bike class at next year's event with your Pro Connect S?
.

I'm sure the others are fitter than me- if not they're in need of more assistance than even a PC S can give.

 

[musicbooks]

I'm sure the others are fitter than me- if not they're in need of more assistance than even a PC S can give.

Yup Simon,
It's called a car
bw
musicbooks

 

[Annex]

Bicycle: Kalkhoff Proconnect S

Summary: Probably the best e-bike I have owned or ridden. My previous and current bikes include Giant Lafree, Ezee Torq, Ezee Quando, Ezee Forza, Wisper 905se, Cytronex Trek, Kalkhoff Agattu.
The Shimano Deore XT gears gears are well matched to the bike and the gearchange is very light, smooth and positive.

Hi Aldby and other Kalkhoff Proconnect S owners,

I am wondering between Kalkhoff Proconnect S and Kalkhoff Proconnect Alfine 8. I like outside gears and Deore XT has long reputation. Alfine 8 is the follower of Nexus 8 but I have not found many comments on it, at least not here.

Did you consider Alfine 8 at all?

Is it easier to change the rear sprocket (set) to S than to Alfine?


-Annex

 

[flecc]

Annex, just jumping in to advise that these two models use different Panasonic units and the gears are not convertible either way between derailleur and hub types.

The Pro Connect S is a high speed class bike powering to over 32 kph and it's Panasonic unit transmission uses a special idler setup to suit the derailleur gears. It's high power mode is 1.5 times standard power. There's no chain adjustment slots in the frame to suit a hub gear.

The Pro Connect is a standard EU class bike which only powers to 24 kph. It's Panasonic unit has a chain idler that only suits the hub gear arrangement and won't work well with derailleur gears. It's high power mode is 1.3 times. There's chain adjustment slots in the frame that are not necessary for derailleur gear bikes and not ideal for them.
.

 

[Annex]

Thanks flecc for your information. I did not know the Panasonic units are different, even though their power is the same. I understand that their setup is different, so the S reaches higher speeds.

I was a bit unclear. What I was asking, was if I wanted to adjust gearing ratio in either of the models, what would the difficulties be in either of the models.

​

In derailleur model, S model, I would have to change the whole gear set, easily done in a bike shop.

​

In hub mode, only the rear sprocket would have to be changed. Maybe that is cheaper and similarly easy as in the S model?

This questioning was to think about the suitability of S model with EU regulations. Cars and motorbikes have more speed that is allowed on roads. Are cyclists less capable of regulating their speed than motor vehicle riders?
Of course there are the insurance and liability issues.

So what would the cost be if the S model would have to be changed to a max 15 mph model?

-Annex

 

[flecc]

I understand Annex. It's not easily possible to change the S model to EU legal for the standard mode, since it would require a cassette with a smallest sprocket for high gear about 17 tooth, that based on my guessing that the present top gear sprocket is 12 tooth. I don't know of any cassette that has a smallest sprocket that large.

It would be simpler to adjust the rear mechanism so that the smallest sprocket it would change to was a 17 tooth or whatever was needed, or alter the changer so that it couldn't operate beyond that size of gear sprocket.

Another approach would be to change the motor's chain drive sprocket, but that would depend on what it is at present. I know that 8, 9 and 11 tooth sprockets are made, so that approach would depend on whether an exactly right sprocket to change to was available, probably unlikely.

However, I'd suggest that none of this is worth it when you can buy the standard Pro Connect which is a powerful enough bike despite the high power mode being a bit less at 1.3 times. Also there's enough choice of manufacturers of Panasonic powered bikes now that if the standard Kalkhoff Pro Connect doesn't suit, I'm sure another make will.

The Standard model Pro Connect with the Alfine hub is already legal of course, and increasing it's assist speed only needs a rear sprocket change, simple, quick and cheap to do. If the standard 23 tooth sprocket is changed to a 16 tooth smallest available, the maximum assist goes to the same sort of level as the S model at around 32 kph.

Finally, The S model is just as illegal in the UK as in Finland, since no government order to implement the EU high speed class legislation has been made, but some are just risking having one anyway.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Alfine 8

Bicycle: Kalkhoff Pro connect S

Summary: Probably the best e-bike I have owned or ridden. My previous and current bikes include Giant Lafree, Ezee Torq, Ezee Quando, Ezee Forza, Wisper 905se, Cytronex Trek, Kalkhoff Agattu.
The Shimano Deore XT gears gears are well matched to the bike and the gearchange is very light, smooth and positive.

Hi Aldby and other Kalkhoff Proconnect S owners,

I am wondering between Kalkhoff Proconnect S and Kalkhoff Proconnect Alfine 8. I like outside gears and Deore XT has long reputation. Alfine 8 is the follower of Nexus 8 but I have not found many comments on it, at least not here.

Did you consider Alfine 8 at all?

Is it easier to change the rear sprocket (set) to S than to Alfine?


-Annex

The Alfine 8 is fitted to the new Wisper 906xc Tourer which will be in the UK in about 10 weeks. I have a prototype which I use every day and the Alfine 8 is absolutly superb, the change is perfect whether you are standing still or on the move and the range is spot on for an ebike. And of course there is hardly any need for maintenance. I have no hesitation in recommending them.

All the best David

 

[tillson]

Hi Tom
Recent experience has given me some optimism that there will be some life beyond the 2 year mark for the Panasonic batteries, and supports the view that the deterioration is quite linear, at least through to 2 years.

My ProConnect, complete with second battery, was new in June 2008. The 2 batteries have each done about 900 miles, and each received some 60 charges.

Using a mains energy monitor from the outset, both batteries required 330 watt hrs (to the nearest 10 watt hrs) of mains power for a full recharge during initial conditioning.

During this first year, they have been fully discharged to the BMS cutoff on a further 2 occasions in order to rebalance the cells to a full set of 5 lights (they had dropped to 4 lights) with a full rebalancing charge. I have not considered this to be a battery fault, but this view would need expert corroboration.

A full recharge at the 12 month point uses 310 watt hrs; the 6% loss equating exactly with the reduction in mileage on full assist (19T sprocket) from 26 miles new to 24.5 miles now.

Very recently, I have bought a second hand Agattu (in need of a lot of TLC) which has now been rebuilt to a high standard.

It must have been one of the earliest sold as it was described as 2 years old and this seems barely possible yet.

Its history was described as 1 year of daily city commuting (10 miles), followed by 1 year at the back of the garage during which time the battery had been charged just once !! The general state of wheels, gears, chain, brakes would corroborate the active life of at least 2500 miles. The bike was not in a fit state for a road test.

In line with the current forum thread regarding ebike & battery value, this would put the value of the battery well into the £0 band. On collection, the battery showed 5 lights for the state of charge, and only 3 lights for the condition of the cells (10 second button test).

Having completed the rebuild, I was keen to see the situation with the battery (and indeed verify that the charger was in good shape).

Ride 1
Started with cell condition on 3 lights, battery charge 5 lights, battery ridden to cut out in dribs and drabs whilst checking out the bike.
Charge 1
290 watt hrs of input, cell condition back to full 5 lights

Ride 2
23 miles around the same circuit that would have produced 24/25 miles on my ProConnect !! Final light flashing, but not fully exhausted.
Charge 2
270 watt hrs of input, cell condition 4 lights > slight disappointment

Ride 3
Same circuit, 24 miles to fully exhausted for another cell balancing charge.
Charge 3
290 watt hrs of input, cell condition 5 lights.

I have been out a futher 3 times for 20 miles or so and the cell condition has remained on 5 lights.

None of this is yet evidence that the battery has a significant future life, but for the present, it is perfectly acceptable at a loss of about 12% of the original capacity.

My previous experience suggests that the summer always brings out the best in batteries. A 2yr old battery is likely to have a summer left in it, but a younger battery can disappoint in the winter.

James

Hi James

Some encouraging observation that you have made regarding expected battery life. I’m pleased with the way that my battery is aging at the moment, so hopefully we will get an acceptable service life out of these units.

I’ve had my Pro Connect for just one year now and have used it almost exclusively for my daily commute to work. Taking into account capital outlay and likely battery replacement costs, I don’t think that there are huge savings to be made by using it as a replacement for a daily car journey to and from work. I find the greatest benefits come in the form of reduced stress, fitness and being involved in a fascinating form of transport. On balance, well worth the outlay I say!

Regards

Tom

 

[Artstu]

I really cant fault this bike, I just wish some of my cycling friends had one as I enjoy the cycling experience with company and I'm not sure this bike sits comfortably alongside non-powered bikes.

Ken

I assume that you mean that it is too quick for riding with none-electric powered cyclists?

If so why not join a local cycle club on their Sunday morning club run? that would be interesting.