retro kit

mapman

Pedelecer
Oct 2, 2009
42
0
newcastle /ne7
RAB.C.NESBITT

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Thanks for the feedback, at the moment I cycle to work 10 miles either way and it takes me about 47mins one way on average with a few hills, so I'm after a kit to give me a bit help.
So a kit that does 19mph for the off road section & gives me a range of 25miles would be great (want to use it in all weathers).
So the decision is do I buy an Alien kit, I've seen post about Wisper kits (wish they were out now) or spend more money and go for the Wisper 905 Sport.
I'm desperate to buy now but dithering!!

Thanks
Mapman
 

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
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Shanghai
Mapman,

I feel the Alien Ocean kit offers pretty good value for money although I've never actually seen 1 in the flesh. It uses pretty standard but what seems to be good quality parts. The company has a good reputation for service and they are UK based.

Once you've got a kit up and running it's no big deal to then change out a controller or motor to give you more speed or whatever. Most of the cost is in the battery and at 36V 10Ah, that should be more than sufficient for the distance you want and maybe a little power boost down the road if so desired :)

There should be some more options on both e bikes and e bike kits in the near future in the UK but I'm not quite there yet ;)
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
RAB.C.NESBITT

EMISSIONS - FREE

Thanks for the feedback, at the moment I cycle to work 10 miles either way and it takes me about 47mins one way on average with a few hills, so I'm after a kit to give me a bit help.
So a kit that does 19mph for the off road section & gives me a range of 25miles would be great (want to use it in all weathers).
So the decision is do I buy an Alien kit, I've seen post about Wisper kits (wish they were out now) or spend more money and go for the Wisper 905 Sport.
I'm desperate to buy now but dithering!!

Thanks
Mapman

I would either go for the 905SE or wait for the kit if you already have a quality donor bike. If you can't wait get the 905 it is a lovely bike and will put a smile on your face guaranteed! :)
 

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
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Shanghai
I wouldn't say they are a must if you are sticking to a UK legal 250W motor but you should take more care with Aluminium forks. What model fork are you using, or any chance of some pics?

If you are going to use aluminium forks there are several things that you should consider. Firstly they're not as forgiving as Steel, so if they go, they can go in a rather catastrophic way :eek: You don't want to loose your front wheel, even going at the UK legal limit of 15mph as it's fast enough to be kissing tarmac.

You should be addressing 2 points when fitting a hub motor to front forks. Firstly aluminium suspension fork are generally designed with quick release rims in mind and so therefore they have what is referred to a "lawyer lips" by some, but basically a depressed section where the quick release fastening sits into. Secondly standard bicycle forks were never designed to have a torquey little (or big in some cases) motor bolted in there that wants to twist outself out whenever you twist the throttle.

The almost universal method of preventing the motor spinning out is by using an oversized axle with typically an M12 thread and then machining 2 flats into it with approximately 10mm spacing. This axle should then be fitted into a robust dropout with washers on both the inside and outside of the dropout. If you are using a fork designed for quick release hubs, this is where the first issue will arise. There will not be a flat surface to secure the larger than intended nut and washer on the outer face and an axle that is not correctly centred due to it's larger than standard radius. To address this you should use something like a c shaped washer that has been modofied to sit into the depression where the quick release hub would normally sit. Alternatively you could file the raised sections down so that there is sufficient sized flat section.

In addition to the above you should also fit a torque arm. This will take the very significant torque that is created and transfer that force to a point further away. By increasing the lever length, the force is reduced and you can quite securely mount the torque arm which will remove the twisting force applied to the dropouts. The torque arm should completely enclose the axle, so it has the added benefit that if the worst were to happen it would most likely keep the wheel in the forks, rather than bouncing down the road, while you kiss..... or fall in traffic.... 2 torque arms are better than 1 in this respect as if they are securely mounted to the fork, they'll keep the wheel in the fork no matter what happens to the dropouts. If you can't get hold of a torque arm you could use a 10mm spanner and secure it to the fork with a couple of jubilee clips as a temperory solution. Not the perfect solution, but better than nothing.

Finally you need to make sure the nuts are good and tight and make sure to check them periodically. Especially the first few days after fitting the wheel as the axle will move it a little until it's backed up to the torque arm.

There are alloy suspension forks manufactured that are intended for front hub motors. I'm gonna have some in the near future so will try to post some info and pics about them. I'm sure I'm being overly cautious and that with a little 250W motor, you should be OK. The same priciples should also be applied to rear motor installations.

Keep safe.
 

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john

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2007
531
0
Manchester
car wheel nuts

Alternatively you could file the raised sections down so that there is sufficient sized flat section.
I'm not keen on this idea as it weakens an already fairly weak drop-out. The other advice is good though.

Another alternative is to replace the nuts with car wheel nuts. This has two advantages. If you get some with a taper then they will sit nicely in the drop-out recess. Secondly, you get a longer thread so can torque the nut more without risking stripping the axle thread. You may need to cut the end off one to allow the cable to pass through.
 

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
Sorry but the last thing you would want to do is put a tapered nut on there as it will spread the drop out and could weaken/damage it. That's why you should use a washer on both the inside and outside drop out to reinforce that area.

When I said file down the raised sections of the fork, it's just that. You wouldn't be weakening the drop out, you would just be allowing the outer washer to sit flat and correctly onto the outer face of the drop out. If you fit the washer onto an uneven surface it will cause high pressure spots on the dropout and could cause the materiel to develop a crack and could later fail. A C washer is also fine but where do you get them?

You also need to be careful with stripping the thread on the motor axle as it will not be as strong due to fact that flats have been machined into it so there is less thread material for the nut to clamp onto. You need to get it nice n tight but don't go crazy on it.

I haven't just come up with all of the things mentioned by myself. I've looked into and that is what I found. To be honest, coming from an engineering background it all makes perfect sense. Chances are a small little motor will not cause a problem in an Alloy fork but I personally wouldn't be happy to recommend some of the solutions that I've seen. All it takes is for someone to overvolt from 36V to 48V and their just about holding together front fork lets go, hopefully not dropping them under a passing bus :eek:
 

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
C washer doesn't actually mean anything but it does give a pretty good description of what is required. I haven't done it myself but will be doing it in the near future.

Basically you just need to take a washer that fills the recess in an alloy suspension fork where the quick release would sit. The recess is there so that if someone doesn't tighten the quick release properly, the wheel will not fall out. Next you would take your motor and fit it into the forks, remove the washer 1st. A typical motor uses an M12 thread with machined flats that are spaced 10mm or so. When the axle sits in to the fork the centre point of the axle will be further out of the fork than a standard axle which would have a thread of maybe M8, I'm not sure exactly.

The hub motor axle is now not properly centred on the recessed section of the outer drop out, or "lawyer lips" as they are referred to by some. If you just use an appropriate washer for an M12 bolt, it will be too big for the recess. The smaller washer now needs to be modified in such a way so that it is properly centred on the lawer lips. This will most likely require the end of the washer to be removed and cut to the profile of the motors axle.

I'd like to try and get some steel sleeves made up, that can fit over alloy forks that would act as torque arms. It may require some machining of the alloy but I'm sure it's do able.

Especially if you're using a fairly meaty motor in the front, you need to be extra careful and give it a bit of a pre flight check to make sure you're ship shape :)
 

john

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2007
531
0
Manchester
Sorry but the last thing you would want to do is put a tapered nut on there as it will spread the drop out and could weaken/damage it. That's why you should use a washer on both the inside and outside drop out to reinforce that area.
Yes you need to choose the nut carefully to fit the drop-out. The ones I am talking about taper in and are then flat so that they fit into the drop-out without applying any spreading pressure.

When I said file down the raised sections of the fork, it's just that. You wouldn't be weakening the drop out
Removing metal here has got to cause some weakening, even if only slightly. It certainly would on mine, perhaps less on others as forks come in all sorts of shapes.