retro kit
- Thread starter jakeboy
- Start date
Well at the current time I would recommend the Alien Ocean kit if its kits your looking for an MTB/Hybrid. But I guess its down to your requirement as to whether you want raw power or assist. The kit is a good all rounder and in your price range. Also check your fork clearances both at the drop outs and up higher where the motor case sits.
- 36v Road Legal Kits
I am assuming your happy with the DIY side.
You can read my aventures with this kit here and decide for yourself. Fitting a kit for your self is not for the faint hearted and you may have to adapt things a little. Also consider fitting a torque arm (essential really if your forks are aluminium and some say only use steel forks) its worth the peice of mine. I since decided I wanted pedal assist rather than off the mark power and have purchased a second hand Cytronex.
See HERE
The Whisper kits does look interesting though I am guessing its not gonna be cheap. That said I guess the Alien kit isn't cheap but its based in the UK and the after sale support is good from my experience. You can go complete DIY and order all the bits yourself if you like and might save a few pounds. But as a first timer I am glad I did not do that.
Regards
Jerry
- 36v Road Legal Kits
I am assuming your happy with the DIY side.
You can read my aventures with this kit here and decide for yourself. Fitting a kit for your self is not for the faint hearted and you may have to adapt things a little. Also consider fitting a torque arm (essential really if your forks are aluminium and some say only use steel forks) its worth the peice of mine. I since decided I wanted pedal assist rather than off the mark power and have purchased a second hand Cytronex.
See HERE
The Whisper kits does look interesting though I am guessing its not gonna be cheap. That said I guess the Alien kit isn't cheap but its based in the UK and the after sale support is good from my experience. You can go complete DIY and order all the bits yourself if you like and might save a few pounds. But as a first timer I am glad I did not do that.
Regards
Jerry
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Alien 36v kit fitted
Just to back up what Jerry says - I've just finished fitting an Alien 36V kit to my normal commuting bike and things seem to fine and dandy. I had a bit of a problem fitting a throttle to my (outsize) bars but with some help and suggestions from the good folk on the forum (esp Nick/Tiberius) I managed to come up with a solution - this is where, as Jerry says, you may have to adapt things a little.
I'll post a couple of photos of the conversion over the next day or two - not because it's a brilliant conversion (it's not) but more to encourage others who are hovering and thinking of converting.
A couple of things occurred to me as I was testing the "new" bike that you (and the forum) might wish to make a comment on.
I fitted the kit on to a bike I've commuted with over several years - I obviously knew the bike inside out, its weight, what it would and wouldn't do. Once the kit is fitted, the bike is changed a great deal = obviously it is now heavier and things like braking distances change (you're now braking with an extra weight on board) so, without sounding like your dad, make sure you test it on a quiet/off road area. I found my braking with the new kit was really poor - a combination of worn blocks and poor set up probably - however, it had worked fine when the bike was light and was only found out when the kit was installed.
General handling and mode of cycling will obviously change - taking off at lights with a heavier bike for example. However, having said all this, the buzz of being able to attack hefty hills by just pressing the thumb throttle and laugh in the face of headwinds is worth it all.
With all this being said, I can understand why some guys will buy a reasonably priced or second hand hybrid/mountain bike and fit a kit to it. Doing it this way it's as if you have no "previous" with the bike, you start from scratch and you build your ebike with your normal bike in reserve - if I were to do it again, I might save up a few quid and have gone down this route myself . . . nevermind . . .
Oh one other thing - if your looking for a noiseless unit, this isn't it. Certainly the noise would be lost easily in traffic, but if you're on a quieter road, people will hear the "annoyed insect" whine as you fly past.
Rab
Just to back up what Jerry says - I've just finished fitting an Alien 36V kit to my normal commuting bike and things seem to fine and dandy. I had a bit of a problem fitting a throttle to my (outsize) bars but with some help and suggestions from the good folk on the forum (esp Nick/Tiberius) I managed to come up with a solution - this is where, as Jerry says, you may have to adapt things a little.
I'll post a couple of photos of the conversion over the next day or two - not because it's a brilliant conversion (it's not) but more to encourage others who are hovering and thinking of converting.
A couple of things occurred to me as I was testing the "new" bike that you (and the forum) might wish to make a comment on.
I fitted the kit on to a bike I've commuted with over several years - I obviously knew the bike inside out, its weight, what it would and wouldn't do. Once the kit is fitted, the bike is changed a great deal = obviously it is now heavier and things like braking distances change (you're now braking with an extra weight on board) so, without sounding like your dad, make sure you test it on a quiet/off road area. I found my braking with the new kit was really poor - a combination of worn blocks and poor set up probably - however, it had worked fine when the bike was light and was only found out when the kit was installed.
General handling and mode of cycling will obviously change - taking off at lights with a heavier bike for example. However, having said all this, the buzz of being able to attack hefty hills by just pressing the thumb throttle and laugh in the face of headwinds is worth it all.
With all this being said, I can understand why some guys will buy a reasonably priced or second hand hybrid/mountain bike and fit a kit to it. Doing it this way it's as if you have no "previous" with the bike, you start from scratch and you build your ebike with your normal bike in reserve - if I were to do it again, I might save up a few quid and have gone down this route myself . . . nevermind . . .
Oh one other thing - if your looking for a noiseless unit, this isn't it. Certainly the noise would be lost easily in traffic, but if you're on a quieter road, people will hear the "annoyed insect" whine as you fly past.
Rab
Good to hear your comments Rab and agree with the braking or lack of that you mentioned. I agree that the extra weight will effect the braking but there's also the fact that you have some of that weight in the front wheel where it gathers momentum, plus most of your braking is done with the front which seem to make the situation worse still. The extra weight of the kit isn't so significan IMO whn you consider the average or slightly bigger than averaged sized rider 
The thing is though that once you've actually tackled a bit of DIY ebiking it's no longer gonna be a big mystery anymore and you can go onto change parts out as required in the future. You could change your motor for a rear, could change the type/power, whatever.
The geared hub motors do have some noise but I've found that the bigger diameter hub motors are quieter. I believe that when the gears get down to a certain size, the teeth on the gears must necessarily get proportionally bigger when compared to the complete gear, which leads to noise. Which motor do you use in the Alien Ocean kit? I believe it's a Bafang, but which model? I've recently used the latest Bafang motor and it was very quiet.
If you're using V brakes they definitely need to be in good order. I'm gonna be trying a few different combinations soon with both V and disk, front and rear motors so we'll see how it pans out.
The thing is though that once you've actually tackled a bit of DIY ebiking it's no longer gonna be a big mystery anymore and you can go onto change parts out as required in the future. You could change your motor for a rear, could change the type/power, whatever.
The geared hub motors do have some noise but I've found that the bigger diameter hub motors are quieter. I believe that when the gears get down to a certain size, the teeth on the gears must necessarily get proportionally bigger when compared to the complete gear, which leads to noise. Which motor do you use in the Alien Ocean kit? I believe it's a Bafang, but which model? I've recently used the latest Bafang motor and it was very quiet.
If you're using V brakes they definitely need to be in good order. I'm gonna be trying a few different combinations soon with both V and disk, front and rear motors so we'll see how it pans out.
The new Alien kit sounds good if it wasn't primarily for V brakes.
This may be short sighted with a lot of mountain bike manufactures going down the disk brake route. When you have had good hydraulic disk brakes you will not want to go back to V's.
This may be short sighted with a lot of mountain bike manufactures going down the disk brake route. When you have had good hydraulic disk brakes you will not want to go back to V's.
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The new Bafang motors can work with disk brakes, not to mention other small hub motors that are presently available. I think there is a serious lack of options in the UK to purchase the various available equipment.
Some kit photos
Flickr: Rab C Nesbitt's Photostream
I've attached some photos of my Alien conversion - as I said previously, it's no work of art but it's pretty functional. I've still to tidy up the wires in case you think I'm a complete slob.
The kit watchers amongst you will notice that there's no wee controller bag hanging from the crossbar as this is now enclosed in a little black compartment attached to the battery - gives the bike a better, smoother line, don't you think ?
I commute with a type of lightweight saddle bag slung over the pannier which covers both sides so unless you're in the know and spot the giveaway front wheel hub, it's hard to spot it as an ebike
Cheers
Rab
Flickr: Rab C Nesbitt's Photostream
I've attached some photos of my Alien conversion - as I said previously, it's no work of art but it's pretty functional. I've still to tidy up the wires in case you think I'm a complete slob.
The kit watchers amongst you will notice that there's no wee controller bag hanging from the crossbar as this is now enclosed in a little black compartment attached to the battery - gives the bike a better, smoother line, don't you think ?
I commute with a type of lightweight saddle bag slung over the pannier which covers both sides so unless you're in the know and spot the giveaway front wheel hub, it's hard to spot it as an ebike
Cheers
Rab
Looks good Rab. Especially like the battery enclosure with the controller in that little box at the front. Very neat.
Ah they must be including them in the kit now that they have cleared the back log of older kits like the one I had with the little bag.
Might even be the newer motor.
Looks neat I agree. The kit is certainly a great option.
Regards
Jerry
Might even be the newer motor.
Looks neat I agree. The kit is certainly a great option.
Regards
Jerry
I'm sure that's a Bafang and I'm sure it's a current model but there is a model that is a bit smaller, with disk brake option. I believe it is a bit more expensive.
Emissions - you're right enough, it is a Suzhou Bafang - don't know what model though.
Jerry - I saw the new Alien bike had this neat little box so I contacted Jim at Alien Ocean who said that as luck would have it, all the new 700c kits had this new fixture. I would imagine they would run down the "bag" stock of 26" kits before advertising the boxy ones.
Jakeboy - I would urge you to give it a blast - just give yourself plenty of time and you'll do fine.
Rab
Jerry - I saw the new Alien bike had this neat little box so I contacted Jim at Alien Ocean who said that as luck would have it, all the new 700c kits had this new fixture. I would imagine they would run down the "bag" stock of 26" kits before advertising the boxy ones.
Jakeboy - I would urge you to give it a blast - just give yourself plenty of time and you'll do fine.
Rab
Jakeboy - Alien Ocean advise
"The width required between the forks to allow the motor wheel to fit is 100mm as shown in the slide show above. If your forks taper, you need a minimum of 85mm at the narrowest point. The kit is primarily for V brakes as there is no integral fitment for a disc. Bar diameter for fitment of throttle is standard 22mm."
Rab
Rab C Nesbitt,
Like The Info About Your Alien Kit.on The Flat What Speed + Miles Do You Get.
Thanks,
Mapman.
Like The Info About Your Alien Kit.on The Flat What Speed + Miles Do You Get.
Thanks,
Mapman.
Mapman
The kit I bought is regulated so it will only assist to approx 15mph - in reality it's about 15-17mph which suits me fine because once at this speed if I feel I want to crank it up a bit I change gear and pedal that bit more and its easy to get into the 20 - 25mph on the flat, as the motor has done the hard work helping you gain that initial momentum.
I would stress that I do help the bike a lot and pedal most of the time (albeit leisurely) so my mileage might not be very applicable to you. I haven't done any tests as yet but I know that having used it for 4 days (50 miles) I've still got all 3 green lights on. I will eventually do some sort of test on it to see what kind of mileage it gets per charge
Rab
Mapman,
every motor will have a no load (just spinning) RPM at a given voltage. Typically a small geared hub motor such as the Bafang used in the Alien kit for a 26" rim will have a no load RPM of about 200-220RPM.
This works out to an actual speed of just a little higher than the legal limit. The motor is basically geared so that it maxes out at legal speeds so therefore it gives the best performance or torque in the useful range.
You can get a higher geared (well actually lower geared as they are step down gear) motor that will spin out to maybe 300rpm at 36V, intended for maybe a 20" rim. However due to the limited power (250W nominal) it will not be able to actually pull that speed without some assistance in a 26" rim, ie. some pedalling and will have less torque, so slower to accelerate and struggle more on hills.
You'll also get a software limit in the controller, that is set to whatever is required to keep it within legal limits, but even if this were removed the motor can still only spin to it's max RPM. By over voltage you can get both more power and speed but then you need to be careful with damaging the motor and also be aware that it is no longet legal. Although I've yet to see traffic police employing road side e bike dynos
Hope I didn't bore you too much with the above
every motor will have a no load (just spinning) RPM at a given voltage. Typically a small geared hub motor such as the Bafang used in the Alien kit for a 26" rim will have a no load RPM of about 200-220RPM.
This works out to an actual speed of just a little higher than the legal limit. The motor is basically geared so that it maxes out at legal speeds so therefore it gives the best performance or torque in the useful range.
You can get a higher geared (well actually lower geared as they are step down gear) motor that will spin out to maybe 300rpm at 36V, intended for maybe a 20" rim. However due to the limited power (250W nominal) it will not be able to actually pull that speed without some assistance in a 26" rim, ie. some pedalling and will have less torque, so slower to accelerate and struggle more on hills.
You'll also get a software limit in the controller, that is set to whatever is required to keep it within legal limits, but even if this were removed the motor can still only spin to it's max RPM. By over voltage you can get both more power and speed but then you need to be careful with damaging the motor and also be aware that it is no longet legal. Although I've yet to see traffic police employing road side e bike dynos
Hope I didn't bore you too much with the above
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