Researching for leccie bike

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I use cheap (Wilco), soft low quality cables, but I don't have to adjust anything as my test showed, where I did 1000 miles on the cheapest bike with the cheapest gears without adjusting anything.

If it were a problem, this forum would be inundated with requests about how to adjust them, but in my 5 years on here, it's probably come up about 5 times. In fact, if you do a google search of this forum, hub-gear adjustment and problems comes up more frequently than derailleurs. Considering that derailleurs outnumber hub gears by about 10 to 1 on electric bikes, that's pretty overwhealming evidence. I rest my case.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,196
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I've been looking (online only) at the Kudos Safari £695 and the Whoosh Sundowner £725 both with integral gear hub and enclosed drive, they look easy to maintain and simple to operate why are these sort of bikes so few and far between?
It's the result of the British bicycle market declining to near death in the 1960s and '70s. When it started to grow again from the introduction of the mountain bike at the start of the 1980s, it became a predominantly sporting market, rather than the utility market it had earlier been.

And that meant hub gears and chaincases were absent, mudguards, carriers and lights often not fitted too.

None of this happened in northern Europe's main cycling countries where cycling never declined in the manner it did here. So there the traditional, well equipped, low maintenance "roadster" bicycle still thrives.
.
 
C

Cyclezee

Guest
Regarding stepthru frames Cyclezee have a number of choices but right now the only folder we have is the Ansmann FC5 Compact. Two FC5's would fit in the average hatchback without too much difficulty.

Links to the stepthru bikes we have available:
http://www.cyclezee.com/ansmann-fc1-plus.html
http://www.cyclezee.com/ansmann-ft-11.html
http://www.cyclezee.com/ansmann-fc-5-compact.html
http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-sprint-primo.html
http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-street-mk2.html
http://www.cyclezee.com/ceres-est-city-bike.html
 

vidtek

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
423
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Bournemouth BH12
It's the result of the British bicycle market declining to near death in the 1960s and '70s. When it started to grow again from the introduction of the mountain bike at the start of the 1980s, it became a predominantly sporting market, rather than the utility market it had earlier been.

And that meant hub gears and chaincases were absent, mudguards, carriers and lights often not fitted too.

None of this happened in northern Europe's main cycling countries where cycling never declined in the manner it did here. So there the traditional, well equipped, low maintenance "roadster" bicycle still thrives.
.
Flecc
Your potted history makes a lot of sense, I understand a lot more about the whys and wherefores of the UK market for the past 30 years while I've been in Aussie now - thanks.
Tony.
 

vidtek

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
423
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74
Bournemouth BH12
I use cheap (Wilco), soft low quality cables, but I don't have to adjust anything as my test showed, where I did 1000 miles on the cheapest bike with the cheapest gears without adjusting anything.

If it were a problem, this forum would be inundated with requests about how to adjust them, but in my 5 years on here, it's probably come up about 5 times. In fact, if you do a google search of this forum, hub-gear adjustment and problems comes up more frequently than derailleurs. Considering that derailleurs outnumber hub gears by about 10 to 1 on electric bikes, that's pretty overwhealming evidence. I rest my case.
Thanks d8veh, like flecc, what you have to say makes perfect sense, I must put aside my old prejudices and come into the 21st century.
Incidentally, I see on other posts you have a passing interest in the electronic side of the bikes, if I can offer any assistance in that regard when I finally get my bikes, I will be pleased to help. As an ex-tv engineer (in the days when people actually repaired stuff) I specialised in video projection systems and video wall installations mainly. I also did 2 years full-time at uni to get a diploma in IT., so know a bit about computers too. I did a stint with home automation integrating Cbus2 systems as well. Unfortunately I donated all my test equipment to the Salvation Army in Perth when I left Australia so just have basic meter etc now.
Tony
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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My Alfine gear hub is more sensitive to cable tension than my derailleur bikes, so does need a little more fettling.

The days when cables stretched significantly in use appear to be over, although I try to remember to leave my bikes in higher gears so the cable is left under low tension.
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
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North Staffs
My Alfine gear hub is more sensitive to cable tension than my derailleur bikes, so does need a little more fettling.

The days when cables stretched significantly in use appear to be over, although I try to remember to leave my bikes in higher gears so the cable is left under low tension.
My Rohloff has never needed any adjustment, I think it's designed that way.
To have one though would blow his budget without the rest of the bike.

I started out trying to get what I wanted at a low price, never made it.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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My Rohloff has never needed any adjustment, I think it's designed that way.
.
Could be due to the twin cables, which none of the cheaper hubs have.
 

earwig

Pedelecer
Nov 2, 2014
40
6
Earwig-
nice moniker mate!
Thanks for reply, I don't suppose you've got a name for him?

Tony.
look for electricmountainbikes.com

He will give you lots of options, but the price may still be a killer.
He would also convert existing bikes, but in the long run this may not be the best option.
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
Could be due to the twin cables, which none of the cheaper hubs have.
The Nuvinci had twin cables too, rather stiff I found and didn't improve any.

Instructions from Rohloff are not to lube the cables, don't say that about the chains though, it was Hatti who said that.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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I found the NuVinci stiff to change as well.

I might have got used to it, or it might have continued to irritate me.

Probably the latter.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,196
30,602
I found the NuVinci stiff to change as well.
I think this is related to the pedal pressure input. I found when trying one that easing right off made the shift easier, but of course that's the last thing one wants when tackling a stiffening climb.
.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
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Mine was only a short ride, so I didn't get to sort out techniques.

Strange device, not sure what I made of it.

The electronic shifting version might ride well, but it's yet more weight and complication.
 

vidtek

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
423
243
74
Bournemouth BH12
look for electricmountainbikes.com

He will give you lots of options, but the price may still be a killer.
He would also convert existing bikes, but in the long run this may not be the best option.
Thanks Earwig,

I checked out his website, and you're right, price is a bit too steep for my budget. Very interesting read though.
Tony
 

Si & his Velocious Herts

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 17, 2015
6
2
60
I would suggest going to the next big bike show where you can test them out and see what quality gets you. The difference between torque sensors and rotational sensors for me were by far the biggest differentiator, and although the former would bust your budget, if you are unused to e-bikes, their more natural feel could be a major 'like' for you or your wife as opposed to the sometimes 'runaway' feel you get with rotational sensors.
 
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vidtek

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
423
243
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Bournemouth BH12
I would suggest going to the next big bike show where you can test them out and see what quality gets you. The difference between torque sensors and rotational sensors for me were by far the biggest differentiator, and although the former would bust your budget, if you are unused to e-bikes, their more natural feel could be a major 'like' for you or your wife as opposed to the sometimes 'runaway' feel you get with rotational sensors.
Si-
Thanks for this, but I've already taken the plunge, I have spoken to Andy at Whoosh and have ordered a Sundowner with the 500w motor and 15ah batt. They are calling it the SunBear. £ 899. It looks a bit retro but with suspension both ends and a (hopefully comfy) big saddle and an extra bit of grunt I'm hoping it will suit. I'm still tossing up the best wifey option, it looks at the moment like a Kudos Safari from London Electric Bike Co. at £695. It never occurred to me that the sensors employed would make a big difference to the feel of the ride, but it makes a lot of sense. Both bikes use the Nexus gears with which I'm more comfortable and are (just) within budget.
A big thanks to all of you who have assisted me with my research, it's a bit hard when there are no electric bike shops for miles around.
Tony.
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
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Torque sensor versus speed sensor is the big divide. It’s why some ask would be buyers whether they are keen cyclists or ex cyclists who want the bike to ride like an unpowered bicycle but give them bionic legs so they ride it as if they were forty years younger, or a sort of electric moped where you only have to turn the pedals to get the power.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
vidtek: you have two weeks to send the bike back if it does not suit you.

the woosh Sunbear is basically a 700C Big Bear LS with Nexus gearbox and fully enclosed chain.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?sunbear

 

vidtek

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
423
243
74
Bournemouth BH12
Torque sensor versus speed sensor is the big divide. It’s why some ask would be buyers whether they are keen cyclists or ex cyclists who want the bike to ride like an unpowered bicycle but give them bionic legs so they ride it as if they were forty years younger, or a sort of electric moped where you only have to turn the pedals to get the power.
JohnCade-

Very much not a keen cyclist. An e-bike is very much a second best in place of my Virago cruiser. The family have prevailed upon me to give away the motorbikes since my heart attack and get "on yer bike" for a bit of exercise and away from my computer screen. A sort of electric moped describes my cycling aspirations admirably!!
 

vidtek

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 29, 2015
423
243
74
Bournemouth BH12
vidtek: you have two weeks to send the bike back if it does not suit you.

the woosh Sunbear is basically a 700C Big Bear LS with Nexus gearbox and fully enclosed chain.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?sunbear
Trex-
Andy has been upfront with me and has sent me his T&C's excerpt.
14 days if assembled in the garage and not ridden, then a sliding scale of charges after that which seems fair to all parties. After all, if in his place I was to send a bike to a potential client who after riding it for a week sent it back unwanted, I'd be saddled with a second-hand bike to sell I'd be pretty miffed about it.
Here is the excerpt:

Returning a bike please read before riding.

If you have purchased at a store, or have tried a bike at a store and then had one sent to you, you are not a mail order customer. We will only refund you for the bike if it has a serious fault within the first 28 days. We will not refund you if you simply change your mind after a few days.

Mail order purchasers: A bike will be refunded if returned within 14 days if unsuitable or 28 days if faulty. The bike MUST be packed in an identical way to that in which it arrived to avoid damage during return transit. We will email or post you instructions on how to do this as it is not straight forward. After 28 days, if faulty the bike will not be refunded but repaired and returned back to you.
Sending your bike back: you can send your bike back by using your own courier or you can call us and we will collect it.
Costs: returning a bike for a refund
Return by you of a bike unridden within 14 days: refund less £35
Collection by us of a bike unridden within 14 days: refund less £60
Return of a bike unsuitable and ridden within 14 days: refund less £145
Collection of a bike unsuitable and ridden within 14 days: refund less £160
Return of a bike faulty within 28 days ridden or not: full refund*
Costs: returning a bike with battery or just a battery for servicing
1st 28 days: free collection and return, free parts, free labour*
Months 2—12:
If you return at your cost, we return free, free parts, free labour*
If we collect, £25, we then return free, free parts, free labour*
Month 13 onwards:
If you return at your cost, we return for £25, parts at cost, labour £35 p h
If we collect and return, £49, parts at cost, labour £35 p h
Bikes with batteries or just batteries cost the same to collect and return. This is because batteries on their own require a special courier and this costs more.
*Repairs needed due to accidents or negligence will be charged for.
*Costs will be deducted from a refund for damage in return transit caused by poor or inadequate packaging and missing items such as keys.

The sale of goods act here in the UK is slightly different to the Aussie scenario. There 12 month warranties no longer apply, even though retailers and manufacturers try to enforce them. Firstly, the goods must be fit for purpose and not faulty. Then there is a term used "what a reasonable person would expect". So if someone buys a $30 DVD player that packs up after 13 months, no-one really cares. If you buy a $4000 smart tv, you would expect it to last at least 10 years, the courts interpret this on a pro-rata basis, so retailers and manufacturers have no get-out clauses and must in law provide a remedy. This is all a bit airy-fairy and is still being tested in the courts. Interestingly, most of the retail industry there were really slack in training staff on the new laws, and Coles-Myer and a couple of really big retailers were fined massively because their staff misinformed customers on consumer law. Several million dollar fines and $20,000 for the individual salesman involved. Sorry a bit off-topic but I thought you guys might be interested. I just happen to know about this as I still own 1/2 a trailer import business in Perth (we import trailers from French firm Trigano).
http://www.euroindustries.com.au for anybody interested.

Tony
 
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