Replacing Controller

[ChrisOfBristol]

I have a "Verteci" folding elebike, I don't know the model name, but it has "Zoom" on the handlebar stem.

The controller electronics board isn't working, it is in a large metal tube inside the bottom bracket, so I will have to dismantle that to fix or replace it. The bike itself looks well made - until you start looking inside the bottom bracket! You more or less have to break things to dismantle it.

I have two options:
1) Open the tube with the electronics in - I would appreciate help on how to do this if anyone has one of these.
2) Identify the motor type then buy a new controller to match. The motor has two wires and is marked San Jiang TCCE 01026. I think only brushed motors have only two wires, whereas the brushless ones also have sensor wires. However i believe there is a new type of brushless motor that senses the magnetic field in the motor via the [removed 2] power wires so doesn't need sensor wires.

 

[MaxDaddy]

If you're going to break it all apart, you could just hook the battery straight into the motor with a switch in between. Zoom zoom!

Sent from mTalk

 

[ChrisOfBristol]

Haha! Sensible suggestions only please

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't believe that that's the controller. Where do all those wires go that run under the bottom bracket. The motor looks like a normal three phase ebike motor, so don't connect the battery to it. Some photos of the bike would help.

 

[Alan Quay]

I have a "Verteci" folding elebike, I don't know the model name, but it has "Zoom" on the handlebar stem.
View attachment 15804
The controller electronics board isn't working, it is in a large metal tube inside the bottom bracket, so I will have to dismantle that to fix or replace it. The bike itself looks well made - until you start looking inside the bottom bracket! You more or less have to break things to dismantle it.

I have two options:
1) Open the tube with the electronics in - I would appreciate help on how to do this if anyone has one of these.
2) Identify the motor type then buy a new controller to match. The motor has two wires and is marked San Jiang TCCE 01026. I think only brushed motors have only two wires, whereas the brushless ones also have sensor wires. However i believe there is a new type of brushless motor that senses the magnetic field in the motor via the two power wires so doesn't need sensor wires.

I think you are getting brushless and sensorless confused.

All brushless pedelec hub motors I've ever seen are 3 phase, so have three fat wires.

They may, or may not have additional wires for sensors. Sensorless = no thin wires, or wires not connected.

If it only has 2 wires it's a brushed motor. If thats the case then applying the battery directly to the motor is a valid test.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisOfBristol]

I think you are getting brushless and sensorless confused.

All brushless pedelec hub motors I've ever seen are 3 phase, so have three fat wires.

They may, or may not have additional wires for sensors. Sensorless = no thin wires, or wires not connected.

If it only has 2 wires it's a brushed motor. If thats the case then applying the battery directly to the motor is a valid test.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

I'm not, but I should not have written "the 2 wires" - I'll remove the "2". Thanks for pointing that out. The article I read doesn't make it clear that it only applies to 3 phase motors which have 3 (thick power carrying) wire motors (maybe it was too obvious to state).

http://electricbikeblog.com/types-of-electric-motors-for-electric-bikes/
"This is a new innovation, and promises to make BLDC (brushless DC) motors more reliable. These motors do not require sensors as the position of the armature is detected using magnetic field detection."

That means as you say, that mine is a brushed motor. I have already taken the risk of trying a 12V battery on it - it ran.

 

[Alan Quay]

I'm not, but I should not have written "the 2 wires" - I'll remove the "2". Thanks for pointing that out. The article I read doesn't make it clear that it only applies to 3 phase motors which have 3 (thick power carrying) wire motors (maybe it was too obvious to state).

http://electricbikeblog.com/types-of-electric-motors-for-electric-bikes/
"This is a new innovation, and promises to make BLDC (brushless DC) motors more reliable. These motors do not require sensors as the position of the armature is detected using magnetic field detection."

That means as you say, that mine is a brushed motor. I have already taken the risk of trying it on a 12V battery - it ran.

All of which makes post #2 a perfectly sensible suggestion, although you would need to use a Relay unless you want a big switch on the handle bar.

What makes you sure the controller is in the BB?

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Fordulike]

All of which makes post #2 a perfectly sensible suggestion, although you would need to use a Relay unless you want a big switch on the handle bar.

What makes you sure the controller is in the BB?

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

I think Chris could be right about the controller location. If you look at the main picture of the crank out of the bike, it looks like the wiring exits that part. Sort of pre Bafang BBSxx style.

 

[Fordulike]

Not much help, but here's another thread about this particular motor:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/san-jiang-motor.14441/

 

[Deleted member 4366]

With only a couple of cryptic photos, all we can do is make wild guesses. Why don't we ever get a picture of the actual bike?

 

[ChrisOfBristol]

Not much help, but here's another thread about this particular motor:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/san-jiang-motor.14441/

I saw that thread before I joined the forum - but stupidly it wouldn't allow me to look at the pictures! Now I've joined, at your prompting I looked again and can see the manufacturer and number stamp on the motor is the same as mine. My bicycle has a throttle though.

 

[ChrisOfBristol]

I think Chris could be right about the controller location. If you look at the main picture of the crank out of the bike, it looks like the wiring exits that part. Sort of pre Bafang BBSxx style.

I have now managed to dismantle the controller tube. This was only possible by using increasing levels of violence! It is clearly designed not to be serviceable.

• A grub screw could only be removed by drilling it out as the screwdriver slot disintegrated - the screw was made of Blu Tack.
  
• Two and three pin spanners are needed to undo some of the collars. No sign of 3 pin spanners on the Web! I don't think they could have applied enough force either, as the pin holes aren't very deep.
• There are two thin metal disks for the pedal assist sensor, one attached to the crankshaft and the other to the sprocket. These are glued on, so the tube can’t be dismantled without removing them by force and bending them - I can't see any way to reassemble that.
• The pedal assist sensor circuit board is stuck into the outside of the tube with something similar to car panel filler. It's underneath a layer of filler, so it's not until you remove the filler you realise there's a board underneath, and it inevitably gets damaged.

However, the main controller board is screwed into the tube so it can be removed without damage! If I'm right in thinking that the original problem was with the sensors, I should be able to bodge something up.

 

[ChrisOfBristol]

I tried using the controller without the pedal assist sensors, but couldn't make it work. I gave up on that and bought a new controller from Hong Kong. Works a treat!

 

[Fatgadget]

Presumably your bike has a throttle as well as pedal assist? And out of interest, what controller did you purchase? Its just that I had a few bikes with similar torque sensors and it took a while to suss out a solution!

 

[ChrisOfBristol]

It's an LB27 which seems to be a standard 24V 250W brushed controller available from many sellers. It's available on Ebay from China, Hong Kong or GB. I was nervous about buying from China, but I have bought stuff from HK before without problem and it's half the price of the same product from GB so I got mine from HK for £6.50. Search for "24V 250w Brushed Controller Box FOR Electric Bicycle E-bike & Scooter"

It is ruggedly made, although not waterproof so needs sealing with some gooey compound. It has all the inputs/outputs you need provided you don't want a pedelec sensor. I chopped off the wires I didn't need, short circuited the on/off switch wires as recommended and replaced the plugs with the ones from the old one. It doesn't need a speed control sensor as speed is limited by the wheel size and power. Neither a speed control sensor, pedelec sensor or brakes which cut off the power are legal requirements despite what you may read on forums. The 24V battery, motor, throttle sensor and battery level are standard voltages so work fine, and the brake switches are just shorting switches.

I'd be interested to know what your solution was.

 

[D8ve]

It might not be a legal requirement but brake cut outs help,if the throttle goes wide open.