Replacement Battery Panasonic

[Hermann]

Hi,
it seems that in Japan the pedelecs are much cheaper, about less than half the price compared to Europe (Agattu, etc.).

If you look at Panasonic´s homepage:

ƒpƒiƒ\ƒjƒbƒN ƒTƒCƒNƒ‹ƒeƒbƒNŠ”Ž®‰ïŽÐ


you see prices of around 100.000 yen per bike (between 80.000 and 125.000 yen), that is about average 620 Euro or 490 Pounds.

According to an earlier article by extraenergy, a replacement lithium ion battery (not mentioned the capacity) costs about 230 Euro in Japan.

I don´t speak Japonese, so I cannot identify details or prices on the panasonic page.

Even with shipping and import tax, a replacement battery should be still about half the price. Does anybody have experience with that? Would the connector fit? Or does Kalhoff/Raleigh/Biketec modify it?

Best regards
Hermann

 

[flecc]

We investigated this before Hermann, and privately importing a battery worked out slightly more expensive than the price in Britain, after adding post and packing, import duty and VAT.

The same will be true of the bikes as well, so no gain, especially as there will be no-one to turn to if anything goes wrong.
.

 

[Hermann]

Hi flecc,
in Germany, a 10Ah Panasonic battery is about 600 Euro or 400 Pounds. If you calculate a battery life of about realistic 300 full charges (not taking account the decrease in capacity the older the battery gets) and about 40km per charge, a lifetime of a battery gives you around 12.000km, optimistically. This means 0,05ct per km or 5 Euro per 100km, not counting the (small) price for the electricity itself. This is definitely not very cheap, even compared to a small car. So an economic benefit is clearly not so evident (which is not priority for me). This would be different with cheaper batteries or longer battery life.
Does anybody have proven km/mileage for Panasonic batteries? The large ones (10Ah) are probably too new.
How much is a 10Ah Panasonic battery in Britain?
Regards
Hermann

 

[flecc]

Hi flecc,
in Germany, a 10Ah Panasonic battery is about 600 Euro or 400 Pounds. If you calculate a battery life of about realistic 300 full charges (not taking account the decrease in capacity the older the battery gets) and about 40km per charge, a lifetime of a battery gives you around 12.000km, optimistically. This means 0,05ct per km or 5 Euro per 100km, not counting the (small) price for the electricity itself. This is definitely not very cheap, even compared to a small car. So an economic benefit is clearly not so evident (which is not priority for me). This would be different with cheaper batteries or longer battery life.
Does anybody have proven km/mileage for Panasonic batteries? The large ones (10Ah) are probably too new.
How much is a 10Ah Panasonic battery in Britain?
Regards
Hermann

Your battery is very expensive, the price from the UK agent has recently been reduced from £305 to £295, and that includes VAT and delivery.

The latest polymer 10 Ah battery should easily exceed 300 charges since it's guaranteed for two years. A five day a week commuter can be doing around 500 charges in that time, and if they also do odd weekend trips, even more than that.

As you say, the battery is too new for us to know the attainable mileage yet.

As for running costs, e-bikes are not as cheap as they seem at first sight, but they are far cheaper than any car once all the motoring factors are taken into account, road tax, insurance, petrol and oil at today's high prices, tyres, batteries, depreciation and other maintenance and running costs.

P.S. My last car cost 1.15 euros per km, 114.79 euros per 100 km.
.

 

[mikescave]

Replacement battery

Pedelec Forums - Electric Bike Forum > Pedelecs Forums > Electric Bicycles
Battery life (again)
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#1 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 22:39
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36

Ezee Battery life (again)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apologies for brining up an old subject for discussion. But I have been a proud Ezee Torq owner for about two years. I love the bike and think it is fantastic, but the batteries are driving me mad.
I originally had a Lithium Polymer battery but that died within the year. So I scoured the planet and found a NIMH battery at NYCE in New York and paid a fortune to ship to the UK. Like many others I have found the NIMH much better for my riding style. However after a year this battery is starting to fail, albeit not as spectacularly as the Lithium Polymer. This is also after giving the battery a monthly "conditioning" discharge.
The longest journey I do is to my parents and back which is about 10 miles, which a new battery does with ease, but now I find that after about 8 ½ miles it gives up (this is in un-restricted mode).
I admit that I treat the batteries hard, although I do pedal, I don’t put too much effort in.
But as someone else mentioned in this forum, if I have to keep replacing batteries every year, I might as well buy a normal bike.
We are currently a two car family, so if we downsize to one car, I can at least be re-assured that buying a battery every year is cheaper than running a ca r!!!!!

Discuss……..

Ian

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by imellor : 16th August 2008 at 23:51.


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#2 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 22:58
flecc
Pedelec Guru Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,079



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The original was a Lithium-ion one Ian, but they have just introduced a Lithium Polymer, but it's £410 with P & P.

I don't know when you got your NiMh battery, the original 2006 9 Ah ones were fine, but late 2007 the cells became impossible to source at affordable prices for manufacture, the only viable ones used then being the 8.5 Ah ones seen in many bikes, like the original Powacycle Salisbury/Windsor. The discharge rates of those cells are not really up to adequately supplying the powerful Torq 1 motor, so the life can suffer with hard use.

The internal construction with six columns of five cells and limited space make these very difficult to re-cell, and packs can't be bought with that formation.

Other than splashing out on a new battery, one thing I can suggest is one of the LiFePO4 packs that some members have recently bought, mounting it on the carrier instead.

Alternatively you could buy a cheaper 36 volt battery like the £150 Synergie Mistral lithium one and parallel it with your present battery using Schottky diodes for isolation, and that would give you plenty of range and current for power. You'd need to experiment to see if the eZee's HP charger suited the Synergie battery, but it's pretty well a generic with many manufacturers now, Wisper now using them as well as eZee.
.



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#3 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 23:09
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flecc
The original was a Lithium-ion one Ian, but they have just introduced a Lithium Polymer, but it's £410 with P & P.
[/size][/size]

As ever flecc, thank you for a very prompt reply. I hadn't realised that there was a change from Lithium-ion to Lithium-Polymer. I don't mind investing in a new Lithium-Polymer battery, if it is an investment that is going to last, even 18 months to 2 years would be good. However I am guessing that they haven't been on the market long enough to be proven yet?
I think you are right about my NIMH battery, I had such difficulty sourcing a NIMH, I assume it is probably a 8.5Ah one.

Ian


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#4 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 23:31
flecc
Pedelec Guru Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,079



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've spent all this year testing a new 4.4 kilo Phylion Lithium Ion one for eZee and it's been superb, and still is at over 250 charges. In parallel, others have been testing a new 3.3 kilo lithium polymer one from another manufacturer, and they've also had excellent results. With that choice open, eZee have opted for the lighter one and that's what's for sale now at Cyclepoint. here's the link to my testing thread:

New eZee battery
.


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#5 (permalink) 16th August 2008, 23:51
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flecc
I've spent all this year testing a new 4.4 kilo Phylion Lithium Ion one for eZee and it's been superb, and still is at over 250 charges. In parallel, others have been testing a new 3.3 kilo lithium polymer one from another manufacturer, and they've also had excellent results. With that choice open, eZee have opted for the lighter one and that's what's for sale now at Cyclepoint. here's the link to my testing thread:

New eZee battery
.

Flecc, is the original Li-ion battery charger suitable for charging the Lithium-Polymer battery, or do I need a new (third) battery charger?

Ian


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#6 (permalink) 17th August 2008, 00:01
flecc
Pedelec Guru Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,079



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's fine for it Ian, you don't need a new one. eZee do have an experimental BMS on test which would mean a new high speed charger, but that's for the future and only then if successful.
.


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#7 (permalink) 17th August 2008, 09:07
imellor
Member Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flecc
It's fine for it Ian, you don't need a new one. eZee do have an experimental BMS on test which would mean a new high speed charger, but that's for the future and only then if successful.
.

I assume BMS = Battery Management System.
In my experience fast charging of batteries never seems to work very well!!!

As for the Lithium-Polymer, I'll live with the NIMH for a couple more months and will probably invest in a LI-Polymer. I don't think the recent hot tempertures have helped with the charging of my NIMH, so I'll see how it responds in the cooler weather.

Ian


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#8 (permalink) 17th August 2008, 11:30
flecc
Pedelec Guru Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,079



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Yes, Battery Management System. I agree on fast charging, though I think it's mostly unsuccessful due to poor charger systems, and BMS where used.
.


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#9 (permalink) Today, 21:06
mikescave
Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Posts: 12

EZEE Liv Battery Life

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

I think I've been conned by 50 cycles! My Ezee liv is superb but the battery is crap! ( Bought JUN 07)

What should I buy as a replacement for my Phylion XH370-105 37v ?

50 Cycles, from whom I purchased my bike , no longer sell Ezee, so I think I've been duped.

I need a replacement battery but according to the new Ezee agents "Cyclepoint" that seems to be £400ish.

It seems to me that I would have been better advised to buy a Powabyke, a company who has agents: and locally to me, and who have a sustainable/realistic battery replacement scheme.

From a very unhappy 50 Cycles customer - I await your comments.

Regards
Mike

 

[flecc]

That number is only the battery type Mike. Can you let me have the serial number complete that's on the label. It begins with a J. Than we'll know when the battery was made.

When you bought your bike, 50cycles were the eZee agents for the UK, but various problems that started to crop up, including the battery failures of that 2007 period, led to a falling out of the two companies and eZee appointed another agent as you've found. There would not have been any intention to con in June 2007, since the battery problems take time to emerge, as you found.
.

 

[mikescave]

Hi Flecc,

The battery is XH370-10J 37v

Serial; JGJ ABI (or 1) 100071

Does this help?

Regards

Mike

 

[Erik]

Acouple of years down the road, there should be a market for a parallel import of batteries for Panasonic.

 

[flecc]

Hi Flecc,

The battery is XH370-10J 37v

Serial; JGJ ABI (or 1) 100071

Does this help?

Regards

Mike

Yes Mike, your battery was manufactured on 29th January 2007, and it was the 71st that day.

The bad news is that the batteries from that time failed quickly after a few months use, I had three fail on me, the battery manufacturer Phylion not achieving a good enough standard for these powerful motors. After months of work they've put things right, but understandably eZee haven't restarted buying from them until at least a years experience has been gained on a test batch of 1000 batteries. Current batteries come from another manufacturer and have been performing well.

eZee did replace a large number of batteries at their own expense, regardless of whether they were out of the six months warranty or not, but couldn't continue with that any more. Unfortunately batteries are consumables and not subject to the legal one year warranty that the bike is.

Unfortunately there's no choice as on most e-bikes, only the manufacturer's battery fits, unless you lash up another make on the carrier, though there's no guarantee that another one will be up to supplying that motor unless there's confirmation from elsewhere.
.