Replacement Battery for Alien Ocean "off road" 350w BPM kit

[Pedant]

I've been a member for at least 5 years and I often read these forums but almost never post, but I need some advice from the experts!

My pedelec is an ancient and favourite hybrid which I fitted an Alien Ocean 350w BPM kit to 5 years ago. The Phylion XH370-10J battery has lost a lot of its capacity and needs replacing. I realise that I could update to a frame mounted battery and improve the balance of the bike (and have more choice of batteries) but I like the rear rack mounted battery for its ruggedness and its stealth (under panniers).

I've been looking at:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36v10-4ah-lithium-ion-battery-rear-battery-for-Mifa-Prophete-e-bike-Charger-/222049731942?hash=item33b3320566:g:pD8AAOSwMtxXqvLV

from YSbattery in Berlin which uses 10s4p Samsung 26F cells.

My questions are:

Will the battery be able provide enough current? (I think the controller may be rated 15 amps but I'm not sure - It's the same as an Alien Aurora).

Has anyone dealt with YSbattery (or their Chinese supplier) and can confirm their ebay 100% rating?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[signwave]

Are you sure that seller is in Berlin?

Scroll down that ebay listing and you will find:

 

[Pedant]

I hadn't noticed that, but I did notice that the listing says:

Item location:
Berlin, Germany

and there is free, and reasonably quick, delivery to the UK.

I was never in any doubt that the product would be from China.

My concerns are:

Can I trust the seller?

Will the product provide enough current?

 

[anotherkiwi]

They have a warehouse in Berlin

I haven't dealt with them but have heard nice things and your battery will have a EU guarantee (get it while you can...)

If you can manage the extra £23 you will probably be happier with the 13 Ah, the closer you get to the Amps of your controller the less sag I think.

 

[signwave]

Can I trust the seller?

I would say no you cannot trust this seller, but maybe I am over cautious.
This seller has gone to great lengths to hide his whereabouts.

Ask the seller, via the ebay 'ask the seller a question':

1) where you would be expected to return the goods if they turned out to be faulty or not as described?
There are many people on here who have a better idea than I on the likely return costs of a battery to China rather than Germany.

2) where are the goods being shipped from?
Note that Duty and VAT would be payable by you on goods imported from China.

 

[anotherkiwi]

https://www.marketplacepulse.com/ebay/uk/ysbattery-2012

Like many Chinese companies they have a warehouse in Europe: Bafang, bmsbattery... This is how they simplify VAT and other duties, your product is shipped from the EU with an EU guarantee of 1 year. If something goes wrong you ship it back to where it came from, in this case Germany.

Simples...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You're missing a big chance to upgrade your bike to something much better. Modern control systems will make your motor smoother, quieter, easier to use and more efficient. I'd keep the motor and the bike, but change everything else, and that includes moving the battery, but if you insist on keeping it on a rack, then this one:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/766-36v145ah-case-02-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html

 

[Pedant]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I decided to go for it before I saw d8veh's reply, so I've placed my order - I'll try to remember to update this thread with my experiences with this seller once I've received, installed and tried the battery.

Thanks for your advice and the link d8veh. I'm sure you're right about the opportunity to improve the bike. Unfortunately my motor is sensor-less so wouldn't work with the sine wave controller in that battery mounting. In fact, if I used that battery I would be installing a completely new kit.

Bearing in mind that I'm now committed to this less powerful battery and my motor is a sensor-less 350w BPM, if I decided to update my controller and accessories, which replacement would you recommend?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Most motors these days have hall sensors, so sensorless controllers are less common and the improvement from a sensorless one would be smaller. The S09P from BMSB has a lot of nice functions along with the LCD, and it gives a lot more power, but it's bigger than your present one, so you'd need to think about where to install it.

The nearest equivalent to what you have is the S06P, which would just give you the benefit of torque control instead of speed control from the PAS, 5 PAS levels and the LCD. It might give a bit less power than what you have. Do you know the rating of your present controller?

 

[Pedant]

Thanks for the advice d8veh. I don't know the rating of my current (no pun intended) controller, but seem to remember it being 15amp though my memory isn't what it was. I'll take a look when I install the new battery. It certainly doesn't have 9 MOSFETs. I took a look at the documentation for the S09P and LCD1 on BMSB and saw that I would need an external speed sensor but couldn't see one offered on their site. Do you know what I would need and where it's available.

I'll see how the bike goes with the new battery and probably be back with lot's more questions if I decide to upgrade the controller.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/661-king-meter-speed-sensor-ebike-kit.html

You can also use a normal cycle computer one if you cut the wire off the head unit. There's two wires in it that go to a reed switch. You connect them to the red and white wires in the three pin connector. If that doesn't work it's the white and black. No harm will come if you get it wrong as long as you don't connect to red and black.

The S09P doesn't work without a display unit.

 

[footpump]

pedant fairly sure that's who I bought my 10.4ah from but cannot find the sale on my ebay account.
mine is bottle battery fits on downtube.

my battery is a yospower not sure if mine is actually Samsung cells.
but getting good range 48 miles just complted no massive hills though still a nats left on battery level display

 

[anotherkiwi]

That range is about right for Samsung 26F cells @footpump. You might get that range from no-name cells when they are new and if you are very lucky it might even keep working for longer but in general after a year the battery is only giving half that range.

 

[footpump]

thanks another kiwi,
I think its hard to judge my kudos style vita uno has 10.4 ah battery 3 levels of pas genraly only got about 3o miles of range that said.
jimod I believe has kudos typhoon/tornado bmp moter more levels of pas and got about 45 miles range same battery I think. but has torgue sensor.

I'm using my yos battery with tongshen cd 250w with torque sensor but amps set to 12.
I think the kudos might draw a bit more current
done over 3000 miles now battery range is about 20 flattish miles

 

[Cliff-C]

https://www.marketplacepulse.com/ebay/uk/ysbattery-2012

Like many Chinese companies they have a warehouse in Europe: Bafang, bmsbattery... This is how they simplify VAT and other duties, your product is shipped from the EU with an EU guarantee of 1 year. If something goes wrong you ship it back to where it came from, in this case Germany.

Simples...

I note that you say BMS Battery has a warehouse in the EU? I couldn't find this on their web page.

I need a similar battery for the BBS01 I have ordered from a UK supplier. I would order from BMS but have read elsewhere on the forum that they take 8 weeks to ship from China. I don't want to wait that long and so would prefer to order from EU.

Can anyone help / suggest a suitable supplier?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Delivery from BMSB is about 2 weeks for batteries, and a lot less for controllers and motors. A friend ordered a controller and a kit less battery last week and he got it 6 days later. Where did you get 8 weeks from?

 

[anotherkiwi]

On the boxes I got it is clearly marked that the origin is Belgium.

Here is my experience:
Order placed for controllers and other non battery stuff
Payement accepted
Parcel packed, then it just sits there until I fired off an e-mail to ask why after 4-5 days it hadn't been shipped
Parcel arrives from Belgium less than 2 days later

They are not sending those boxes by first class air freight from China I believe...

 

[Cliff-C]

On the boxes I got it is clearly marked that the origin is Belgium.

Here is my experience:
Order placed for controllers and other non battery stuff
Payement accepted
Parcel packed, then it just sits there until I fired off an e-mail to ask why after 4-5 days it hadn't been shipped
Parcel arrives from Belgium less than 2 days later

They are not sending those boxes by first class air freight from China I believe...

It's good to know that BMSB has a fast delivery time. It would be good to be certain about whether it is coming from China or Europe when ordering to allow for VAT and handling charges.

Has anyone had to pay these when purchasing from BMS in recent times?

 

[Alan Quay]

It's good to know that BMSB has a fast delivery time. It would be good to be certain about whether it is coming from China or Europe when ordering to allow for VAT and handling charges.

Has anyone had to pay these when purchasing from BMS in recent times?

The last few orders I've not had to pay, but they were small both in value and size.

I've always been caught on the orders that include batteries, though I haven't done that for 12 months or so.

 

[Jimod]

jimod I believe has kudos typhoon/tornado bmp moter more levels of pas and got about 45 miles range same battery I think. but has torgue sensor.

I realise I'm coming late to the party but I've only just read this.

I have a Kudos Typhoon which does about 30 miles on the battery. I also have a Kudos Tourer which does a few miles more. Neither has a torque sensor.

I did 45 miles once on the tourer using one battery. That was exceptional though.