Redundancy

[DBye]

I've got a final decision meeting (part 2) tomorrow on making my job redundancy. Anyone been through redundant. Anyone have any advice?

The final redundancy meeting (part 1) was on Wednesday. Management said there were no viable alternatives to making jobs redundant but then adjourned the meeting to further explore the options that had been ruled out, which is odd.

I'm of the opinion that I'd be better off redundant because:
1. They've made a real mess of the process and turned a previously happy employee into a disgruntled one.
2. I've a 6 month notice period so I can take my time to find another job. Hopefully, I'll get at least garden leave.
3. If they make me redundant I'll get out of paying back a training contract.

So I feel I've a funny line to tread as they can't think I'd just resign if they stopped the process now, following which I'd have to serve the 6months in the office and pay back the training contract. I don't want to stay, but don't want the disadvantages of resignation. I need them to make me redundant!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can make more money out of losing your job than keeping it. Redundancy payments are on the whole tax free too.

I worked mainly in manufacturing where redundancy was a way of life as the factories all closed one by one. I gained substantially with each one. The first one was a bit traumatic. You get a feeling of your future being taken away from you, but by the time I got to the fourth one, I was just looking forward to the extra cash. The third one was the easiest, because I made myyself redundant and carried on doing the same job the next day under another employer (me).

The only advice I would give is to try as hard as you can to get another job as soon as you can so that you can bank all the money. Getting a job is easier than you think, but these days they make you do a load of daft things to get one. If you're not experienced in interview technique, get some training.

 

[Woosh]

I can't say that I know how you feel, I have never been in your situation but I did leave one government paid job to become self employed when I was 27. There was no greener grass on the other side of the fence, I worked god sends hours for less pay and no pension scheme but it was a case of need must.

hang on to your positive thoughts and start looking at whether you can turn your hobbies into a job.

 

[DBye]

Thanks both. Under no illusions of greener grass, but the CV has been updated and ready to go once I know what the situation is.

I'm angry that the firm has spent nearly 5 years training me and at the first sign of an issue (it hasn't been a long decline and the feeling is that redundancy is a knee jerk reaction) I'm likely out on my ear.

That said I do think the best outcome is redundancy, which seems counterintuitive, I think that's the bit that has thrown me.

Work has made it clear it isn't because of the quality of my work, but it is hard not to wonder if I could have done more to avoid this situation, but it has come out of the blue.

Other firms in a similar business in the local area are recruiting and appear to be doing ok, so that's promising at least.

 

[DBye]

Just realized, my ebike is now in the extended rental period with the cycle scheme and is no longer the company's property. -priorities sorted!

 

[Gubbins]

I was made redundant at 59 so called it an early retirement present.
I would advise researching redundancy law and make sure your employer does things by the book and gives you at least your just dues.

 

[Woosh]

I agree with Gubbins.
I would not seek a garden leave - besides the detrimental effect on your social life, it would leave you with a less favourable view by the potential companies that you want to work with. Some flexible hours would be better.

 

[Nealh]

Depending on your age and family needs it can lead to a totally different outlook on life and can be a god send.
At 49 I was made redundant from my skilled job in the building industry and the 5k+ payoff made up my mind to payoff the mortgage, which enabled me to take up a lesser paid driving job and only the need to work 3 or 4 shifts per week. That was 5 years ago and now only work 176 days a year with more free time and hobby time.
My philosophy of self investment and management with my money (and not trusting others with it) has given me a healthy portfolio meaning I have no need to chase the
£££'s anymore and leave the wife and I mortgage free.

 

[Benjahmin]

Don't forget that, as well as being business men, the management are human beings. Turn the emotional screw, remind them that you too are human, not just a figure in the balance sheet. 'What about my family/mortgage' etc. Don't shout, but don't make it easy for them. All the time actively looking for your next adventure. To me, this should help to ensure you get the maximum payout from a bum situation. I think it's 2 weeks pay for every year served over two years, isn't it?
This situation can hit your confidence hard, so focus on what you know you can do well. Gather family and friends around you for some support, not sympathy that's the last thing you need, rather a laugh and a joke.
Above all remember - NIL ILLIGITIMI CARBARUNDUM.

 

[Zlatan]

I was made redundant in 2004. Turned out best thing that ever happened. Retrained in a completely different field and started a business...
Look on it as an opportunity rather than crisis. Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Don't forget that, as well as being business men, the management are human beings. Turn the emotional screw, remind them that you too are human, not just a figure in the balance sheet. 'What about my family/mortgage' etc. Don't shout, but don't make it easy for them. All the time actively looking for your next adventure. To me, this should help to ensure you get the maximum payout from a bum situation. I think it's 2 weeks pay for every year served over two years, isn't it?
This situation can hit your confidence hard, so focus on what you know you can do well. Gather family and friends around you for some support, not sympathy that's the last thing you need, rather a laugh and a joke.
Above all remember - NIL ILLIGITIMI CARBARUNDUM.

Nice idea, Ben, but I see things slightly differently regarding the human aspects.

Everybody feels important and most think that they're doing an important job, but in these situations, you're just a number on a piece of paper and it's every man for himself. If you're lucky, you might get a few sympathetic words, but, basically, you're being railroaded out. The decision is already made.

Like you say, though, there is some mileage in trying to get a better deal. They often try to pay the minimum that they can get away with. Check everything. Maybe get somebody independent to check everything.

Just by way of example, I took the option of a special early retirement scheme for teachers. The offer didn't seem to be as much as what I thought it should be. I had a couple of meetings with personnel at County Hall to discuss that, but they were adamant that the calculation was correct. In the end, I realised that I had been paying the NUT for ten years, so I thought I would give them the opportunity to do something for their money. After they had a meeting with County Hall, the offer was increased by a factor of 10!.

 

[DBye]

Thanks all, its reassuring that it's more common than I thought. Bring on tomorrow -onwards and upwards!

 

[Gringo]

You have my sympathy,
as a time served toolmaker and now 56 ive been redundant 6 times. I've had some bad jobs along with a few good ones.
I'm 18 months in to an American takeover with 2 year golden handcuffs, all nice and sweet but I know from experience if our part of the business dosent go as they expect, we will be out on our ears.
This time I'll take every penny I can and maybe look for par time work

 

[DBye]

Management postponed the meeting, so stuck in limbo, but have secured a few more days pay. NIL ILLIGITIMI CARBARUNDUM indeed, but they're giving it a really good go!

 

[anotherkiwi]

Management postponed the meeting, so stuck in limbo, but have secured a few more days pay. NIL ILLIGITIMI CARBARUNDUM indeed, but they're giving it a really good go!

Psychological pressure, don't give in!

 

[Woosh]

NIL ILLIGITIMI CARBARUNDUM indeed

it is a bad time for you I am sure but your employer is not your enemy, at least it seems to me. They invested 5 years in your training. Their projection did not work out and they lose a fair packet in the process too.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Management postponed the meeting, so stuck in limbo, but have secured a few more days pay. NIL ILLIGITIMI CARBARUNDUM indeed, but they're giving it a really good go!

It's really tricky to make someone redundant. There's lots of hoops to jump through, lots of rules they have to adhere to and they have to get it exactly right or else you can claim against them.

Different people want different things from these sort of arrangement's. Some want to just draw a line under it and move on with their lives as quickly as possible, others want to move on knowing that they got a good deal, others want to fight for the most money possible.

If you want to get the most money possible, bear in mind that any offer is normally subject to negotiation, and they will try and offer you as little as possible whilst trying to convince you that they have already gone above and beyond what's possible to get you the best deal possible. These guys are no longer your friends, though they will try to convince you that they are. As a golden rule, never accept or sign anything. If they want you to sign anything, it's because they're trying to make a mug out of you. You don't need to sign to get sacked. I would just say, "Put the whole offer in writing so that I can get it checked by a legal expert", then don't listen to any comments they make after that.

If you're not in a union, it's probably worth getting everything checked by an employment lawyer. Typical charges are £60 for an initial check of the offer and background, then £300 to £500 for them to fight on your behalf for a better deal. Don't involve the lawyer until you have a final offer on the table.

It's also worth recording all the meetings and conversations. Most phones have a voice recorder. Just switch it on and put it in your pocket before you go into the meeting.

 

[spanos]

It's also worth recording all the meetings and conversations. Most phones have a voice recorder. Just switch it on and put it in your pocket before you go into the meeting.

I would advise caution here, I'm not at all sure what you suggest is legal without at least advising those present of the recording

If push came to shove it is likely it would be inadmissible evidence in tribunal or court

It's complex and not cut n dry. Here is starting point for research

https://www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge/employment/can-i-or-my-employer-audio-record-a-disciplinary-or-grievance-meeting/

 

[tillson]

I think d8veh is right, Your employer is now your mortal enemy. They are prepared to sacrifice your welfare and livelihood in order to save a bit on the bottom line of the company books. They may appear to be chummy and friendly, but that is simply a softening process to condition you to accept a poor deal, thus saving them more money.

I certainly wouldn’t walk away from the job, I would make them push you out of the factory gates. Not the most dignifie exit I agree, but it does leave the door open for retaliation at a later date. One error on their part and you can nail the bastards.

I once had a situation where the human resources department were lying, and I could prove it with compelling documentary evidence. I just let them run with it, remained passive, let them dig themselves deeper in and gain confidence. Right at the end I turned the tables on them with an uncompromising attack and took down to HR staff. It was a beautiful moment.

 

[Kendalian]

My son was made redundant following lots of 'shenanigans' with responsibilities taken off him and given to other workers. His wife is a solicitor specialising in employment law - needless to say he got a good payout after threatening to take them to court! He now has a good job with HMRC!