Recommendation for Old, unfit fat bloke!

[Matt Penfold]

I am looking to but an e-bike in the next few months.

The uses I intend for the bike are:

Travelling to work - around 8 miles on road and off-road tarmac. I will be able to charge the bike at work. The terrain is about 50% hilly and 50% flat, with some short but steep sections. (This is West Wales, near Cardigan).

Travelling to shops - Maximum of around 25 miles, same terrain and going as the commute, maybe a bit hiller. Ability to carry shopping safely is important.

Some riding for pleasure - Again mainly on roads/tarmac, but I would like to be able to use some rougher tracks (gravel, firm mud). No plans to cycle to the top of mountains or use extreme tracks.

I have a budget of between £2000-2500, but could go to £3000 if the extra money got me a lot more bike.

I am 54, and would not call myself very fit (part of the reason for wanting bike is to get fitter), 5'9" and around 16 stone.

 

[georgehenry]

Save some money and buy the Woosh Gran-Camino with a large battery.

Perfect for the brief you gave.

As you have little experience of electric bikes it would be easy to think you need an the expensive crank drive bike.

To get back into cycling or try to get fitter from a lower base point of starting fitness a powerful cadence sensor bike would in my opinion be just the trick, and this one is designed to be more robust for off road tracks and has a powerful motor and 20A controller.

If I did not have three electric bikes already I might put an order in for one myself.

All you need to add to this bike is some good rechargeable lights to add to the lights it has and a pair of Ortleib back roller classic panniers.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?gran-camino

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m5b0s74p3680/ORTLIEB-Back-Roller-Classic

https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/moon/meteor-x-pro/comet-x-light-set---600/120-lumen-933468#colcode=93346803

 

[overlander]

I agree whoosh gran Camino with the 17 A/hr battery would fit the bill perfectly. We have the whoosh rambletta and it’s fantastic. I have just posted about my new Voodoo crank drive bike and how completely different it is to a hub drive. Basically the hub especially with throttle can take over the work when you are knackered but with crank drive you need to keep going. Under your circumstances I say hub all the way with throttle.

 

[sjpt]

Basically the hub especially with throttle can take over the work when you are knackered but with crank drive you need to keep going. Under your circumstances I say hub all the way with throttle.

I agree with those. Just one detail.

The main difference that helps you keep going when knackered in the cadence sensor, that just detects whether you are pedalling but not how hard (or even despite its name how fast). So you can keep the pedals turning with no pressure and the motor will take you along. The other kind of sensor is torque sensor that detects how hard you are pedalling and then the motor puts in work as a multiple of your work; typically it provides around 1/2 your work on lowest setting, and 3 to 4 times your work on highest. Even when on highest, you still need to put in 1/4 or 1/5th the total work; you stop pushing it stops pushing.

Torque sensors have an advantage at startup of giving power at once, cadence sensors take around 1/2 turn of the pedals before it senses the rotation. That can be awkward on hill starts.

Typically hub drive bikes use cadence sensor (and are cheaper) and crank drive bikes torque sensor (and are more expensive), but that is by no means always the case.

As well as Woosh look at Wisper bikes; a bit more expensive than Woosh but still well within your budget. Many of their models offer the choice of torque or cadence sensor (with a price difference). Both Woosh and Wisper have excellent track record for customer service. Woosh bikes are sold out right now, there are a few Wisper are hard to come by but there are still some around (see ebikes direct; https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/brands/wisper/)

 

[overlander]

I agree with those. Just one detail.

The main difference that helps you keep going when knackered in the cadence sensor, that just detects whether you are pedalling but hot how hard (or even despite its name how fast). So you can keep the pedals turning with no pressure and the motor will take you along. The other kind of sensor is torque sensor that detects how hard you are pedalling and then the motor puts in work as a multiple of your work; typically it provides around 1/2 your work on lowest setting, and 3 to 4 times your work on highest. Even when on highest, you still need to put in 1/4 or 1/5th the total work; you stop pushing it stops pushing.

Torque sensors have an advantage at startup of giving power at once, cadence sensors take around 1/2 turn of the pedals before it senses the rotation. That can be awkward on hill starts.

Typically hub drive bikes use cadence sensor (and are cheaper) and crank drive bikes torque sensor (and are more expensive), but that is by no means always the case.

As well as Woosh look at Wisper bikes; a bit more expensive than Woosh but still well within your budget. Many of their models offer the choice of torque or cadence sensor (with a price difference). Both Woosh and Wisper have excellent track record for customer service. Woosh bikes are sold out right now, there are a few Wisper are hard to come by but there are still some around (see ebikes direct; https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/brands/wisper/)

Yes good point made, I do find that character of a cadence sensor bike fun. On the flat it’s like peddling in thin air but you look like superman flying past other bikes lol

 

[FatBob]

I am looking to but an e-bike in the next few months.

The uses I intend for the bike are:

Travelling to work - around 8 miles on road and off-road tarmac. I will be able to charge the bike at work. The terrain is about 50% hilly and 50% flat, with some short but steep sections. (This is West Wales, near Cardigan).

Travelling to shops - Maximum of around 25 miles, same terrain and going as the commute, maybe a bit hiller. Ability to carry shopping safely is important.

Some riding for pleasure - Again mainly on roads/tarmac, but I would like to be able to use some rougher tracks (gravel, firm mud). No plans to cycle to the top of mountains or use extreme tracks.

I have a budget of between £2000-2500, but could go to £3000 if the extra money got me a lot more bike.

I am 54, and would not call myself very fit (part of the reason for wanting bike is to get fitter), 5'9" and around 16 stone.

Hi Matt.

Whatever you buy please, please make sure you have a test ride first. Ebikes are sometime touted as the answer to getting former and non-cyclists into cycling, but they are not a magic wand for the larger unfit rider such as myself. My first test ride (cadence sensor; motor rated at 80 Nm torque, 36 V/ 15 A controller) was just a couple of km, and I had to use PAS levels 2-3 most of the way on essentially flat terrain, and it included a very short section of 3% gradient where I bumped the PAS up to 5. Frankly the experience was just like riding my old MTB, i.e. it didn't feel that the motor made any difference to the amount of effort needed and the very notion of using the ebike to get up an 8-10% gradient (as part of my commute) very rapidly evaporated! Being so unfit, I was gasping for air, nearly fainted and was physically sick at the end of the ride. I'm now taking steps to lose weight and improve my cardio health.

Your BMI is better than mine so I guess you're a lot fitter relatively. However my underlying message is ebikes are not a magic wand to getting up hills and you definitely need to take any potential purchase for a test ride before buying.

Good luck in your journey!

 

[Deleted member 33385]

Torque sensors have an advantage at startup of giving power at once, cadence sensors take around 1/2 turn of the pedals before it senses the rotation. That can be awkward on hill starts.

Yes, hill starts can be tricky on my cadence sensor ebike... At traffic lights, I have to remember to gear down before I stop, so I can start again. If I'm in too high a gear on a hill start - I either have to wait for traffic to clear enough for me zig/zag up a bit, until the power kicks in, or go onto the pavement and attempt to change gear (with zig zagging, if there's room), before returning to the road. I suppose I could lift the chain onto a lower gear...

 

[overlander]

I would add that if you see a bike for you don’t dither they are selling out within days. When I bought the voodoo I bagged it within the hour of stock coming in. It was sold out in under 4 days, it’s absolutely mental right now. Not sure if we are going to see thousands of secondhand e-bikes next year or we are indeed seeing a permanent change.

 

[georgehenry]

My two old 2011 Oxygen Emates have unrestricted throttles which is extremely useful. It is a shame they outlawed them.

Great for starting off, great for precisely matching you walking speed beside the bike, great for pushing the bike up a steep hill, great for getting on a train, lift the front wheel in, push forward and a dab of throttle and in you go with no effort. I have even pushed over really steep stepped foot bridges using it.

How hard it is to make them work like they used to and what risks you expose yourself to I don't know as my two 2011 electric bikes were fitted wit them from new and are retrospectively allowed to have them.

 

[overlander]

Soon, there may be just the kits left, till they all get snapped up too. I'm starting to worry about where I'd buy a spare battery.

Yes I have noticed this as well, went looking more out of curiosity about getting a second Shimano battery, forget it no chance none in stock anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I would add that if you see a bike for you don’t dither they are selling out within days. When I bought the voodoo I bagged it within the hour of stock coming in. It was sold out in under 4 days, it’s absolutely mental right now. Not sure if we are going to see thousands of secondhand e-bikes next year or we are indeed seeing a permanent change.

Soon, there may be just the kits left, till they all get snapped up too. I'm starting to worry about where I'd buy a spare battery.

I think demand will remain high, while Covid-19 remains problematic, which will be at for least another 5 years or so, as people try to find safe ways of getting to work. Considering that it only took a small handful of infected people in November, to infect enough people to shut down the entire country by April... it'll take only another small handful of people with a Covid mutation, that isn't presently affecetd by vaccines, to do the same again. Covid mutations will develop within the un-vaccinated most...

 

[overlander]

Hi Matt.

Whatever you buy please, please make sure you have a test ride first. Ebikes are sometime touted as the answer to getting former and non-cyclists into cycling, but they are not a magic wand for the larger unfit rider such as myself. My first test ride (cadence sensor; motor rated at 80 Nm torque, 36 V/ 15 A controller) was just a couple of km, and I had to use PAS levels 2-3 most of the way on essentially flat terrain, and it included a very short section of 3% gradient where I bumped the PAS up to 5. Frankly the experience was just like riding my old MTB, i.e. it didn't feel that the motor made any difference to the amount of effort needed and the very notion of using the ebike to get up an 8-10% gradient (as part of my commute) very rapidly evaporated! Being so unfit, I was gasping for air, nearly fainted and was physically sick at the end of the ride. I'm now taking steps to lose weight and improve my cardio health.

Your BMI is better than mine so I guess you're a lot fitter relatively. However my underlying message is ebikes are not a magic wand to getting up hills and you definitely need to take any potential purchase for a test ride before buying.

Good luck in your journey!

Just keep at, I find that regular exercise trumps big mammoth sessions. One day you will find that the e-bike will allow you to go up those hills and you will start losing weight fast. I myself at one point lost 5 stone and it was just regular exercise every day but more importantly it was my diet that done the job. You cannot exercise your way out a bad diet.

 

[georgehenry]

I do have a Haibike Yamaha crank drive bike that I also love but I personally think that you only need the crank drive element for the next level up of mountain biking climbing or descending much more difficult and technical steep tracks.

I found test riding invaluable when choosing my bikes but in a Covid world where test riding is difficult/impossible and the demand for new bikes is making them scarce that is much more difficult

 

[overlander]

I do have a Haibike Yamaha crank drive bike that I also love but I personally think that you only need the crank drive element for the next level up of mountain biking climbing or descending much more difficult and technical steep tracks.

I found test riding invaluable when choosing my bikes but in a Covid world where test riding is difficult/impossible and the demand for new bikes is making them scarce that is much more difficult

I was in halfords a few days ago picking up my voodoo bizango and have never seen it so empty before. They had about 10 bikes on display and it was just covered in empty bike stands it looked barren. Guy said it was crazy, the bikes were selling out in days.

 

[Matt Penfold]

Thank you every one. Some good ideas there.

The Gran Camino looks to do everything I want. It is just a pity there is no availability until August, although I will not be a position to buy any bike for a couple months.