Reccomendation for 20" front wheel conversion Hase Kettweisel Trike

[glerwill]

Hi,
I have previously had an e-bike and am now looking for advice/recomendation on a conversion for the trike, including battery choice.

Trike Manufacturer Site

My priorities include range/hill climbing ability/up to 30 mph - I am currently 16 St, aiming for 12 St 7 Lbs (eventually).

Please advise whether your reccomendation is Premium/Mid-Range/Low Cost and whether it is Road legal/Off Road.

I would feel confident to fit the kit myself.

rgds

Graham

 

[Benjahmin]

Never done one but it looks to me like all the weight is over the back axle. I think a front hub would suffer from a lot of scrubbing, especially on hills. I think a crank drive would be more the ticket.

 

[vfr400]

It's not going to work. A front hub-motor powerful enough to get that up to 30 mph will spin the wheel whenever you start off. You'll be replacing the tyre every week.

 

[pn_day]

As the others have said, a crank drive will be better.
Have a look at the various Bafang BBS offerings, or the TSDZ2 (or whatever it is called).

Available from lots of sellers including Woosh:
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit#tsdz2

Another alternative which might be a bit left field - if you have got the version of the Hase without a differential, you could use a motorised rear wheel on the non-drive side. Any geared hub motor would do for this - there are lots of choices.

Hope that helps,
Good luck,
Phil

 

[peter.c]

If you have the model without the rear diff a mid drive is not going to work around corners I learnt this the hard way now on my third trike which has a diff and is great fun to ride this is why most recumbents are single wheel on the rear

 

[glerwill]

Hi, thanks for your points. Hase offer 2 mid drives from shimano. They also offer this one
Motor - Heinzmann - Directpower- lithium-ion battery, including mount and charger, incl. front wheel with Marathon tyre
The extra oomph that turns your daily route into a joyride. With 250 W and up to 60 Nm of torque, the front wheel pulls you toward your destination as soon as you start pedaling.

Unfortunately they want 3.5k euros for it......

I appreciate the lightness at the front point and thought a heavy hub and bottle battery on the front tube might help.

I dont really want a mid drive due to cost, size, fitting reasons.

With that in mind - any specific suggestions for front hub or rear pusher, please?

 

[Woosh]

I dont really want a mid drive due to cost, size, fitting reasons.

you should check out the details.
Cost is about £50 more than an hub kit with similar performance, due to the fact that the gearbox on CD kits is more expensive to manufacture. Size: CD kits are just as neat on a trike as a hub kit. Fitting: CD kits are a bit easier to fit, for example, you will never have to turn the trike upside down to work on.

Crank drives are the easiest to fit. You have fewer variables, resulting in much more predictable result.
With a hub drive, you will need to think about weight distribution, no load speed, weight, handling, wiring, water ingress, pedal sensor, brake sensors, controller box, battery etc.
With a crank drive like the Tongsheng TSDZ2, you have incredibly few issues to sort out.
The TSDZ2 uses a torque sensor, there is no need for throttle nor brake sensors.
I'll post some pictures of trikes that are converted with the TSDZ2 tomorrow.
The main problem is installation of the battery but that's common to all kits.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-207-tsdz2-12ah/tsdz2-cd-kit-48v-12ah
The 48V 12AH battery gives about 60 miles on a trike.

 

[glerwill]

Thank you - nice looking kit

 

[anotherkiwi]

A front hub motor will work fine in the Netherlands, Belgium and a fair bit of Germany and northern France. When it isn't raining, or snowing...

For the speed you want, a mid-drive motor is the way to go, if you want that kind of speed from a hub you need to muck about with overvolting, oil cooling and whatnot. If you look around the internet you will find people who have made an adaptor and fitted a hub motor in front of the diff on those trikes - search on the German forums.

I have finally chosen a hub in the rear because:
- I had a spare rear hub motor on hand
- I don't need assistance on flatter terrain I am already able to cruise over 30 km/h average unpowered
- when I get really old I'll put a mid drive on the front

The rear hub allows me to spin in cadence everywhere but just as with a mid-drive I do have to think what gear I am in. It appears to want to climb just about anything at 20-25 km/h which is fine. As it is unrestricted it will kick in with 60-100 W assist on bumpy spots so speed never drops below 30 km/h and my average is about 35 km/h instead of 32 km/h over the same route.

 

[glerwill]

you should check out the details.
Cost is about £50 more than an hub kit with similar performance, due to the fact that the gearbox on CD kits is more expensive to manufacture. Size: CD kits are just as neat on a trike as a hub kit. Fitting: CD kits are a bit easier to fit, for example, you will never have to turn the trike upside down to work on.

Crank drives are the easiest to fit. You have fewer variables, resulting in much more predictable result.
With a hub drive, you will need to think about weight distribution, no load speed, weight, handling, wiring, water ingress, pedal sensor, brake sensors, controller box, battery etc.
With a crank drive like the Tongsheng TSDZ2, you have incredibly few issues to sort out.
The TSDZ2 uses a torque sensor, there is no need for throttle nor brake sensors.
I'll post some pictures of trikes that are converted with the TSDZ2 tomorrow.
The main problem is installation of the battery but that's common to all kits.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-207-tsdz2-12ah/tsdz2-cd-kit-48v-12ah
The 48V 12AH battery gives about 60 miles on a trike.

Ok, I've read a bit more and adjusted my views on using this kind of drive. You mentioned some photos on a trike?

rgds

Graham

 

[Woosh]

Ok, I've read a bit more and adjusted my views on using this kind of drive. You mentioned some photos on a trike?

rgds

Graham

morning Graham,

I may have promised more than I should have... sorry. All my pictures are of the ICE trikes.
There are however pictures of the Kettweisel with BBS01:

https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/bbs01-im-hase-kettwiesel.48158/

Here is the TSDZ2 on an ICE trike:

If you want to buy a kit from me, I would of course recommend the BBS01B.
I can also supply you with a 48V XF07 on 20" rim front hub kit.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Yikes! Did you see the steering rod clearance issue?

 

[glerwill]

Thanks Woosh and other comments - trike arrives next weekend - a couple of weeks to get used to it.....